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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Things that have no sense.  (Read 5171 times)

DrPhat

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2019, 12:03:48 AM »

You've never seen 15 harpoons chase a single frigate have you lucky? It's not always about damage done but about damage wasted sometimes you know?

Thinking about your point more. I would like swarmer to be faster and target frigates and fighters over other ships. That would make them much more useful. Maybe even a range increase which is a pathetic 1000. Their damage is fine though.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 12:11:10 AM by DrPhat »
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Lucky33

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2019, 12:20:29 AM »

Harpoons pick another target after destruction of the first. Also AI is tuned up to not overkill too much.
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DrPhat

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2019, 12:30:39 AM »

The more we go back and forth the more convinced I am swarmers are meant to be an early game item used in smaller fleets while harpoons are better used late game.

Swarmers have no use here, even with more damage range and speed.

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TrashMan

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2019, 12:33:52 AM »

from a "realism" perspective, you'd think that someone would take the salamander's auto-loader and develop something that could reload, say, hammer torpedos... but that'd be terrible for game balance, so it doesn't happen.

but that'd be terrible for game balance

No.
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Lucky33

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2019, 12:41:22 AM »

I tried my best to make an actually usefull early game swarmer build but it all ends up the same: there is absolutely no sense in wasting 4 OP and small missile slot on Swarmers.
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DrPhat

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2019, 12:46:54 AM »

That is for you to decide, I'm not going to tell you how to fit your fleet.

As for the assumption that the Domain never used Mora or fighters at all is just wrong. Read it however you like. The Mora carrier was alongside the Onslaught before the collapse of the Domain which preceded nearly all mid line and high tech ships.

As I understand it the XIV Legion was part of the Domain navy and it replaced the Mora. You need to provide proof not conjecture to the contrary.

It is even stated the Mora was decommissioned before the collapse while the Domain was still spreading and colonizing worlds.

"After the Collapse, Mora hulls were re-militarized almost suspiciously rapidly by factions that did not possess dedicated fleet carriers. Today they are an anvil upon which many an unwary Pirate warlord is broken."

Your whole argument hinges on this statement here.

"A venerable design the Onslaught-class battleships were first created to serve the Domain of Man eons ago, before the development of advanced strike weapons, fighter craft, modern energy weapons, and shield systems."

You've taken it to understand there were no fighters, but the statement as a whole means "advanced fighters".

There were carriers and fighters before mid line and high tech. They just weren't advanced.

Here again you took a statement out of context.

"The Conquest-class battlecruiser is the embodiment of concentrated firepower. Developed in the period just preceding the popularization of fighter craft, the class emphasizes firepower and speed over armor protection."

Fighter craft clearly existed before but were not yet popular.

You seem to be unwilling to digest all of the information available. I'm beginning to suspect you are a gamma level AI
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 01:22:57 AM by DrPhat »
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Lucky33

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2019, 01:39:23 AM »

Id be very glad that anybody told me how to make Swarmers work.

"but the statement as a whole means"

"before the development of fighter craft".

Dunno where the whole ""advanced" belongs to any part of series" came from. Its the "development".

"Fighter craft clearly existed before but were not yet popular" so there were no need to build specialized carriers for them.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 01:42:33 AM by Lucky33 »
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DrPhat

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2019, 01:46:36 AM »

I'm done trying to convince you, short of having the game makers themselves coming in here and correcting either of us. This has stopped being productive. It's up to others to hear our points and decide for themselves.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2019, 01:49:10 AM »

Iirc, David did mentioned that while low tech types of ships existed before high tech types, new designs fitting with any of the tech levels were still developped when the collapse occured. A bit like we have high tech turbine engines for planes but still create new propeller planes because they have their use.
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Lucky33

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2019, 02:03:34 AM »

Iirc, David did mentioned that while low tech types of ships existed before high tech types, new designs fitting with any of the tech levels were still developped when the collapse occured. A bit like we have high tech turbine engines for planes but still create new propeller planes because they have their use.

So the "tech" is not the actual design's tech level but any implementation of typical solutions optimized for given tasks.

This will make sense. Also it explains why the Guardian has low tech colored shields and drives.

Thank you for the info.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2019, 02:16:15 AM »

I'd say it is the tech level, but tech levels are detached from their era since old techs don't die as long as they are competitive for a specific task.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 02:17:46 AM by Tartiflette »
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2019, 02:34:23 AM »

Swarmer that fires a larger salvo size would be OP, the weapon is fine.

8*75=600. Single Harpoon = 750.
-___-
Try comparing ammo pools too.

Lucky33

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2019, 04:02:26 AM »

I'd say it is the tech level, but tech levels are detached from their era since old techs don't die as long as they are competitive for a specific task.

Technology is the same. Orbital Works, blueprints, common resources. Product is different. For all thing considered, difference between low tech and high tech is the same as machining several blades for an airscrew and order of magnitude more for a turbine's low pressure stage on the very same CNC lathe.

However if you are trying to say that there were some special industrial base for low (mid, high) tech ships when we back to "makes no sense" part.
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Lucky33

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2019, 04:05:14 AM »

Swarmer that fires a larger salvo size would be OP, the weapon is fine.

8*75=600. Single Harpoon = 750.
-___-
Try comparing ammo pools too.

"Im completely OK if the ammo loadout of the Swarmer will be cut. Just make this thing actually resembling a special purpose weapon it is supposed to be."
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TrashMan

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Re: Things that have no sense.
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2019, 04:27:10 AM »

Bear in mind how armor works - many low damage hits are inferior to a single powerful hit
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