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[TrashMan]

Additional layer of challenge that makes aquiring powerful miltiary ships difficult IS fun. Stretches the early and mid game.

And there are ways to deal with that - many other games done it. Take EV.: Nova for example. You can buy licences for ever higher military hardware. Paramilitary/mercenary organizations exist, but since they are not part of a country/nation, they are only trusted with limited hardware.  And of course, comminsion, joining a faction would also give you plenty of benefits.

But being an independant actor with far too much freedom makes the entire universe feel cheaper. Yeah, player power fantasies, player is special and all that jazz. You can be powerful without the rest of the universe being ***.

[bobucles]

Those questions come down to matters of pacing and gating. One concerns how quickly the player progresses in strength, while the other is about what obstacles restrict a player from growing.

The early game is very fast paced. The hegemony stipend covers a huge chunk of early expenses and early missions practically double your starting bank. A bigger fleet allows the player to tackle bigger missions, which increase income rates even more. There's not much in the way of hard obstacles to growth, other than unlocking blueprints and entering the colony game. You need a good bank to set up a comfortable colony, and a good fleet to defend it.

[intrinsic_parity]

The licenses in EV Nova were a triviality. Basically just a small fee on top of the cost of the weapons. Anyone could buy them and you would have most of them in the first 30 minutes of gameplay if you knew what you were doing. If you had the money for actual good tech, the licenses were irrelevant.

The actual mechanic to prevent the player from getting good equipment too fast in EVN was gating tech behind story missions (not reputation). It was also more difficult to capture ships in that game and you couldn't transfer weapons between ships so there were a lot more barriers to getting good tech inherent in the gameplay. The things that actually made it difficult to get faction tech in that game are really core gameplay differences, not simple mechanics.

[Megas]

During 0.8a, if I did not want commission, it was too hard to get good ships (Open Market rarely if ever sold useful military ships, and Black Market may have mostly pirate junk).  That meant I just killed whatever to get ships I need.  Weapons were a bigger pain and harder to replace than ships.  Except for my flagship, I used ships that can fight well with only Open Market weapons.  Because player could only have one commission at a time, player could not buy everything, and even if he could, some things were so rare that it was still faster to get the hardware from attacking fleets and loot the salvage.  For example, player with Tri-Tachyon commission who wanted Hyperion or enough Tempests from Tri-Tachyon was better off attacking Tri-Tachyon partol fleets while transponder was off then loot (and restore) the ships.

I like that I can buy the occasional military ship from Open Market.  Wish I can say the same for weapons.  This is mostly early-to-mid game concerns.  Late in the game, I get as many blueprints as I can (read: all of them) and a nanoforge, then produce everything I need.

[Plantissue]

I find pristine cruisers frequently in the open market and black market. Occasional Capitals can be found in black market or pristine Conquests from military market from independent. One time I found a Doom from military independent. Can't remember which one. Probably the one in Luddic Church system.

[TrashMan]

There are other ways to deal with this. If, for example, there are circumstances that give the player great bargaining power. And it just so happens the player DOES have something to bargain with - blueprints.

Given the state of the sector, the idea that all major powers would want an edge is a no brainer. But exploring old ruins and space in general is dangerous. Hence the idea of bold explorers being given extra rights and even access to some better hardware (still not top capitals), because remnants. For those that know 40K, think Rouge Traders. Basically, the player would be one of those individuals with the rare right to have some military-grade ships in his fleet. And the more you prove your worth by bringing in blueprints, scrap and helping out a faction, the more hardware you get access to.

Thus, when you inevitably find lots of blueprints, you can sell them to a faction and in return of not just the tiny amount of money you get (because the value of these things should be insane), but also the first ship/ x weapons produced by the sold blueprint.
After all, you have bargaining power - you can sell it to their enemies. Speaking of which, selling blueprints to an enemy faction should have consequences, depending on blueprint.

I'll have to be honest and say that I never liked the idea of the player creating his own empire completely independantly - not in SS at least. While a great idea it just doesn't seem to fit in the universe/scope. Hence, I see nothing wrong with commissions or some kind of permanent commitment being REQUIRED not only for the player to get the good stuff, but for the player to SURVIVE.

In a hostile and militarized universe, with the player sorounded by giants, him creating his own empire and doing whatever he wants just feels wrong. If SS was a movie, the player would be the Ultimate May Sue. Note, I'm not against the player being able to create his own faction, but it's the way it is done that bothers me. You should NEED a protection of a bigger fish in the early stages. Starting off as a vassal of a sort, with the early colonization and defense being helped by your patron faction - for a cost of course. Your colony would be expected to pay tithes. Then later, when you get sufficiently strong, you can declare independance.

[Mr. Nobody]

For those that know 40K, think ROUGE Traders.

That damned bat ruined the English language. Prove me wrong

[Megas]

I find pristine cruisers frequently in the open market and black market. Occasional Capitals can be found in black market or pristine Conquests from military market from independent. One time I found a Doom from military independent. Can't remember which one. Probably the one in Luddic Church system.

In 0.9a, you can do that, and I like that.  Makes markets useful... occasionally (due to stiff tariff).  All they need to do is sell more weapons in Open Market.  This is different from before in earlier releases when Open Markets sold civilians and hybrids, maybe frigate warships; and Black Markets used to sell pirate stuff almost exclusively.

In a hostile and militarized universe, with the player sorounded by giants, him creating his own empire and doing whatever he wants just feels wrong. If SS was a movie, the player would be the Ultimate May Sue. Note, I'm not against the player being able to create his own faction, but it's the way it is done that bothers me. You should NEED a protection of a bigger fish in the early stages. Starting off as a vassal of a sort, with the early colonization and defense being helped by your patron faction - for a cost of course. Your colony would be expected to pay tithes. Then later, when you get sufficiently strong, you can declare independance.

As a shump game, of course player is the superman.  Of course, if building your own nation is impossible, then I guess player could take over a faction like Sauron did to Numenor, then work with empire building from there.  Instead of ruling your own faction, you rule Hegemony or Tri-Tachyon.  I prefer building up my own faction bigger than Hegemony or Persean League, but I suppose a hostile takeover of one of the major factions could be an option.

I would not satisfied with being lapdog to a major power for long.  I like that (in theory) Starsector is like classic D&D fighters.  You play tomb raider or hired thug for levels 1-8, then you graduate into being a baron or warlord with a keep and army at about level 9, and you play wargames or do other strategic stuff that affects the world (or you retire and play more lapdogs).

[TrashMan]

For those that know 40K, think ROUGE Traders.

That damned bat ruined the English language. Prove me wrong

It's a typo. I know the difference, I just made the mistake in a hurry. 
And no, not a Sonic fan.

[TrashMan]

In a hostile and militarized universe, with the player sorounded by giants, him creating his own empire and doing whatever he wants just feels wrong. If SS was a movie, the player would be the Ultimate May Sue. Note, I'm not against the player being able to create his own faction, but it's the way it is done that bothers me. You should NEED a protection of a bigger fish in the early stages. Starting off as a vassal of a sort, with the early colonization and defense being helped by your patron faction - for a cost of course. Your colony would be expected to pay tithes. Then later, when you get sufficiently strong, you can declare independance.

As a shump game, of course player is the superman.  Of course, if building your own nation is impossible, then I guess player could take over a faction like Sauron did to Numenor, then work with empire building from there.  Instead of ruling your own faction, you rule Hegemony or Tri-Tachyon.  I prefer building up my own faction bigger than Hegemony or Persean League, but I suppose a hostile takeover of one of the major factions could be an option.

I would not satisfied with being lapdog to a major power for long.  I like that (in theory) Starsector is like classic D&D fighters.  You play tomb raider or hired thug for levels 1-8, then you graduate into being a baron or warlord with a keep and army at about level 9, and you play wargames or do other strategic stuff that affects the world (or you retire and play more lapdogs).

Well, I haven't actually thought about taking over a faciton politically, but why not? A valid approach.
But if you have bothered to read properly, the player WOULD be able to have his own faction/empire - it's just that the process would be more involved and take longer.
Also, since you don't seem to know how fedualism work, Barons WERE vassals of kings. Meaning that the mid game I propose would be just like what you describe - you become a vassal to gain more power and land.
From there on you can serve the nation faithfully (became a celebrated hero of the faction you joined), try to usurp the throne (replace the leader of a faction trough a coup), or break away and create your own knigdom (your own independant kingdom).

I get that some people want to RULE ZA WORLDO! (I do sometimes) and I'm quite fine with that being possible. Just let it be better paces and make more sense.

[Megas]

@ TrashMan:  I know what feudalism is.

The pace is already too long.  (A reason why I consider Free Port must-have as soon as colony can defend itself, due to having almost half of all possible population bonuses, minus lucky sleeper ship.)  I do not want the game to drag out much longer.  I want to play a game, not be bored watching grass grow or snails race for the sake of realism or simulation.

[TrashMan]

I want to play a game too. Not babysit colonies. In that respect, having colony management is a mistake to begin with.

[Plantissue]

Vassals in space in the age of instant communication doesn't make sense, especially when you the player are the only vassal.

[Morrokain]

During 0.8a, if I did not want commission, it was too hard to get good ships (Open Market rarely if ever sold useful military ships, and Black Market may have mostly pirate junk).  That meant I just killed whatever to get ships I need.  Weapons were a bigger pain and harder to replace than ships.  Except for my flagship, I used ships that can fight well with only Open Market weapons.  Because player could only have one commission at a time, player could not buy everything, and even if he could, some things were so rare that it was still faster to get the hardware from attacking fleets and loot the salvage.  For example, player with Tri-Tachyon commission who wanted Hyperion or enough Tempests from Tri-Tachyon was better off attacking Tri-Tachyon partol fleets while transponder was off then loot (and restore) the ships.

I like that I can buy the occasional military ship from Open Market.  Wish I can say the same for weapons.  This is mostly early-to-mid game concerns.  Late in the game, I get as many blueprints as I can (read: all of them) and a nanoforge, then produce everything I need.

I have the complete opposite opinion on this particular topic lol.  I loved 0.8 markets. Advanced ships should be harder to acquire than they are now. Why feel so rushed to get the best ships in the game almost instantly? It is completely counter-intuitive to the game's setting and creates a very real dissonance for those who care about that. It also ends up making Vanilla boring for those who are given those tricks early on. 1) Save up for open market capital of choice OR look for a derelict (plenty available and some coded in). 2) Buy/salvage and outfit it with even low tier weapons. 3) Win most battles until colonies are being attacked by serious threats.

I think some are a little too used to having a huge amount of faction and feature mods during your campaigns (Megas in particular has said before he doesn't use many mods), and this skews the perspective in favor of fast simplicity since there is an abundance of content out there.

Getting all the nice things quickly and relatively easily ends up leaving the overall experience stale for anyone who is not entirely empire driven in their playthroughs.

Remember, now we can build our own ships, so it makes more sense to keep open markets more limited. This makes commissions more unique by allowing them to unlock access to faction-specific stuff.

Now maybe they should not be quite as harsh as 0.8- in that the black market still tends to have more than pirate stuff, but open markets certainly shouldn't have onslaughts. Read the onslaught description from the codex (so the full one) and tell me that is not directly counter-intuitive to the world building to have a open market (not even necessarily Hegemony, mind you) have one for sale.

[Plantissue]

Most ship descriptions don't make any sense in regard to wider game mechanics. Capitals in particular have descriptions that don't gel well with game mechanics and common sense in general since most are hyped up to sound incredible. Astral claims to be able to dispatch any ship with an wing, though their LPC are fixed in battle. Astral description also says that Astral has high technological requirements and that few are with hegemony and private admirals. Conquest does not concentrate firepower, in fact firepower is a weak point. Legion hardly has crushing firepower (compared to what exactly?). Onslaught and Paragon is written like an enthusiastic fanboy description.

It's better that descriptions are changed for "realism" than to change the game around codex descriptions.