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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Limited Skillpicks ruleset  (Read 2477 times)

Plantissue

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Re: Limited Skillpicks ruleset
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2019, 10:02:28 AM »

Opposing fleets can have has Electronic Warfare 3. Having Electronic Warfare 3 instead of 1 is well worth having. I don't see any real reason to stop at 1 unless you always plan to deploy so few ships that you'll never get more than 5/10% bonus.

As for Coordinated Maneuvres, an extra possible 5% speed bonus for every ship is extra survivability for every ship in the fleet, so I consider that worth taking fully.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Limited Skillpicks ruleset
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2019, 02:30:51 PM »

There's always a reason to not take skills: they prevent you from taking other skills. The requirement for taking a skill is that it is better than other skills you could take, not that it is better than not having it...

I don't think that a range advantage in battles where you are already win easily does enough to justify a skill point. If the battle is difficult, then the enemy almost certainly has ECM skills and lots of ships meaning the skill does nothing (you will be fighting to avoid a range disadvantage even when deploying every ship against strong remnant fleets and high level bounties). Skills that do something in easy battles and nothing in difficult battles are not worthwhile IMO.
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bobucles

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Re: Limited Skillpicks ruleset
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2019, 03:15:49 PM »

Quote
I don't think that a range advantage in battles where you are already win easily does enough to justify a skill point.
I dunno. Turning a -20% range penalty into breaking even is definitely worth a skill point, if not the single strongest skill point in the game. Gaining extra range for favorable battles is just a bonus.

The OP value of free, automatic ECM on every single ship is absolutely huge. Even if you don't like the system it's still too many OP in a 1 point skill to simply ignore. There's certainly a reason to debate getting Electronic Warfare II or III, since you may rarely spam enough ships to hit the 15-20% bonus. But the first point is clearly top tier among fleet skills.

Coordinated Maneuvers is a very nice 1 point drop for an automatic 10% speed increase in just about every battle. It's not as strong as EW because it's not negating an enemy bonus at the same time, but it's no slouch for a 1 drop. Maxing the skill and tagging Command+Control to reach +25% top speed is certainly up to player preference though.

Megas

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Re: Limited Skillpicks ruleset
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2019, 03:22:39 PM »

Electronic Warfare 1 provides the same ECM deployment bonus per ship as EW3.  Only the max is different.

I consider Electronic Warfare 1 #1 perk in the game, more important than Loadout Design 3, which I consider #2 perk in the game.  Having ECM per ship deployed is vital to offset the enemy's.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Limited Skillpicks ruleset
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2019, 03:56:14 PM »

Quote
I don't think that a range advantage in battles where you are already win easily does enough to justify a skill point.
I dunno. Turning a -20% range penalty into breaking even is definitely worth a skill point, if not the single strongest skill point in the game. Gaining extra range for favorable battles is just a bonus.

The OP value of free, automatic ECM on every single ship is absolutely huge. Even if you don't like the system it's still too many OP in a 1 point skill to simply ignore. There's certainly a reason to debate getting Electronic Warfare II or III, since you may rarely spam enough ships to hit the 15-20% bonus. But the first point is clearly top tier among fleet skills.

Coordinated Maneuvers is a very nice 1 point drop for an automatic 10% speed increase in just about every battle. It's not as strong as EW because it's not negating an enemy bonus at the same time, but it's no slouch for a 1 drop. Maxing the skill and tagging Command+Control to reach +25% top speed is certainly up to player preference though.

I take EW 1, I was arguing against EW 2 and 3. Sorry I didn't make that clear. Obviously EW 1 does something in every battle, so the arguments I was making don't apply to it.
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Daynen

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Re: Limited Skillpicks ruleset
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2019, 03:22:38 PM »

More speed for your whole fleet is great...until they outrun your flagship, burn all their mobility cooldowns to get to engagement range, run into enemy battle lines and die alone...

I'm definitely eager to see what kind of skill reworks are coming; the current skill tree is somewhat stale.  I can't justify ever going with heavy industrial skills again, whereas the tech tree is all but automatic.  The disparate number of skills in each tree also means the aptitude points in smaller trees are objectively less valuable.
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AgentFransis

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Re: Limited Skillpicks ruleset
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2019, 03:45:49 PM »

More speed for your whole fleet is great...until they outrun your flagship, burn all their mobility cooldowns to get to engagement range, run into enemy battle lines and die alone...
Always set defense orders. Ships still tend to drift around once the battle is engaged but they will largely stick to the markers.
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