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Author Topic: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it  (Read 1685 times)

Dread Lord Murubarda

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Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« on: October 14, 2019, 06:24:17 PM »

hello, I was doing some simulation runs on my new Enforcer.

1st try: 3 arbalest cannons + 4 annihilator rocket launcher vs hammerhead balanced
it went bad

2nd try: I got the crazy idea of rushing the hammerhead since I got that special ability so I mounted 5x dual light machinegun + 4 annihilator.
I used the rush ability and got really close to the hammerhead, I was spamming the rockets to use them as cover to mitigate some dmg, I got in close then the light high dmg/low flux usage guns shredded the hammerhead.

but the AI doesn't know how to rush in like that. on auto-pilot it lost miserably to the hammerhead.
I put in a reckless pilot also.

I did another simulation and it used the rush ability, but then it started backing off.

the AI needs to be able to calculate that it can take some hull dmg when it has far superior close range firepower. especially if there are no enemy ships close.

lol, so I tried again,  at 1500 range I rushed, ended up at at 9 o'clock from the hammerhead, about 300 range, I started turning towards it and activated the shields + rockets ( the guns are on auto) and I got lucky, right after I downed the shield, I got disabling hits on all his guns, kept pummeling him, now he's at 15% hull and 99% flux and I'm at 100% hull and 70% flux and at 100 range or so, so I enabled auto-pilot, set the target to Eliminate and I unleashed my reckless pilot on him, and what did my pilot do? started backing off and using only the rockets and ended up losing coz he never wanted to get in close range.
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Thaago

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2019, 07:49:23 PM »

Just fyi, when you use autopilot in the sim, it does NOT respect your officer's attitude. If you want to get the correct behavior, what you can do is load up another ship in the refit menu, then call in the other ship as an ally, fly your original ship away/retreat it, and THEN call in the enemy. Its a pain.

Even then, you are usually correct: the AI will frequently attempt to back off in situations where it could win (and win quickly) if it accepted some hull damage. Its better than it used to be, but still not great. The main trouble is that the calculation of "when is it worth it to take armor/hull damage" is a very complicated one, and one that the AI gets wrong frequently.

I also think that there is some sort of bug that makes the AI flee from heavily damaged/overloaded enemies, but I haven't been able to make reproducible circumstances so I can't tell for sure.
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Goumindong

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2019, 11:13:09 PM »

The AI will attempt to move out of ship explosion range when shooting at armor/hull. This can be an issue with very short range ships but is otherwise ideal
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goduranus

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2019, 01:11:36 AM »

The AI does use close combat ships well, provided you set the fleet’s aggressiveness to max.

SCC

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2019, 11:50:23 AM »

You must remember two things
AI will try to keep itself alive, unless its in a really advantageous position or you order it to. It's because AI is made for fleet combat. Unless you crank up your fleet aggressiveness to the max, it will try not to get itself killed just to finish off a single ship, as there might be some other ships nearby. It's a fair bit too cowardly in duels, though.
The fact that you can aim burn drive perfectly (in a 1 on 1...) doesn't mean the AI can replicate the feat.

Dread Lord Murubarda

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2019, 12:37:15 PM »

The fact that you can aim burn drive perfectly (in a 1 on 1...) doesn't mean the AI can replicate the feat.

I get it, what I'm saying is, this should be looked into. also, one time I burned myself to the ship, left it at 15% hull and full hard flux, mine was 100% hull and 70% hard flux, and the ship on auto-pilot disengaged and lost the long range war.

ughhh, so I just found the fleet doctrine thing ))). the slider was at 2/5 aggression.

so what is this fleet doctrine thing? I wrongfully assumed it had to do with colonies and that u were choosing a doctrine for the fleets they would build, no idea why I assumed that, but I only managed to build a colony out of curiosity, so far. I keep restarting the game and don't get very far coz I keep wanting to change my early approach.
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Thaago

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2019, 12:52:20 PM »

Fleet doctrine will change the aggression level of non-officered ships, including your own fleet, and it will set the preference for officers that your faction spawns in auto-generated fleets.
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Dread Lord Murubarda

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2019, 01:38:28 PM »

Fleet doctrine will change the aggression level of non-officered ships, including your own fleet, and it will set the preference for officers that your faction spawns in auto-generated fleets.

well, well, well, thank you very much.
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Dread Lord Murubarda

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2019, 05:43:12 PM »

so....
enforcer (medium chain gun + 4 PD light machine gun + 4 harpoon)

vs

the support hammerhead from SIM


fleet doctrine set to maximum aggressiveness

I controlled the ship til the hammerhead was at 1%, then set it on auto-pilot, and the enforcer backed away as soon as it's flux was high and the 1% hull hammerhead wore it down from range.
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Thaago

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2019, 06:21:27 PM »

Again, even with fleet doctrine set, autopilot will default to 'steady'. It considers the ship a 'player' ship and does not respect the setting.
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Dread Lord Murubarda

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2019, 07:43:09 PM »

I started sim with a kite now, then added the enforcer through reinforcements. then retreated the kite and used full assault. the enforcer should follow fleet doctrine now, right? it still refused to take any hull dmg and went in till flux was high, went back to recharge and so on.

it seems that as long as the kite takes a little bit of attention from the hammerhead, the enforcer goes in close to kill it.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2019, 05:54:50 AM »

1v1s, especially in sim, are a horrible way to see how a ship behaves.
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Plantissue

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2019, 06:05:54 AM »

A ship in 1v1 sim is a perfectly valid way to see how ships behave. It is not to be used as the only determinate of how useful it is, but its behaviour for the most part does closely replicate how it would behave in a battle. AI Ships do value not getting damaged over killing another ship whilst getting damaged. In a battle that is what people do mostly ask from their fleet; to survive, especially when outnumbered. I am not sure if fleet setting do affect sim aggression.
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Megas

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Re: Enforcer special ability and how the AI is *not* using it
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2019, 03:52:04 PM »

I am not sure if fleet setting do affect sim aggression.
It does as long as the ship not your flagship (locked at Steady) or piloted by an officer.  I raised fleet doctrine to Aggressive then Reckless to force AI Aurora and Storm Needler Conquest to fight properly in the simulator.
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