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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Whats the best way to counter phase fleets  (Read 907 times)

Mordodrukow

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Re: Whats the best way to counter phase fleets
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2019, 04:32:58 AM »

I guess, i need to repeat, that we are talking about IBB mission. It is like 20 phase ships, mostly destroyers and cruisers, many have officers, all fited optimally to hit and run all as one, not like idiotic pirates. They move faster then regular phase ships. They appear, stab you with reapers or just overload you by ton of deadly *** and then kill with reapers.

My fleet was like 2 Victories, few Legions and an Onslaught. I defenitely neet to change something. At least: pick some ships without vulenerable rear.
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Plantissue

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Re: Whats the best way to counter phase fleets
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2019, 05:01:01 AM »

I alluded to Daggers killing phase ships earlier, purely as an unreliable anecdotal observation, so I decided to so some testing. 

I've found out that Daggers, Tridents, and Khopeshes wait for the phase ship to dephase or be unphased before firing.  It is difficult to tell for Perditions and Cobras, as they are manoeuvrable, but it seems Perditions too, wait for the phase ship to be unphased. Cobras tend to not fire the reaper at all, being either too close or the prediction of the firing solution never being found, so I cannot tell. Longbows certainly do not wait and fire without regard of whether the ship is phased of unphased.

I see no point testing with the Piranha or the Lux.

So Daggers, being fast and manoeuvrable, with a fast tracking missile do rather suprisingly counter phase ships. If it is close enough, it is a certain hit on the phase ship as it takes 2 seconds for the phase ship to recloak. It's just that Dooms tend to kill all fighters with ease, so I never really observed it clearly before.

It's suprising, discovering a new thing about this game after so long. To find out that some bombers wait for the phase ship to decloak before firing. I naturally assumed that like most fighters, they just fire automatically. How many people knew of this beforehand?




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I guess, i need to repeat, that we are talking about IBB mission. It is like 20 phase ships, mostly destroyers and cruisers, many have officers, all fited optimally to hit and run all as one, not like idiotic pirates. They move faster then regular phase ships. They appear, stab you with reapers or just overload you by ton of deadly *** and then kill with reapers.

My fleet was like 2 Victories, few Legions and an Onslaught. I defenitely neet to change something. At least: pick some ships without vulenerable rear.
Sounds like to me that the problem you have is that you have a fleet completely geared up to fight capital warships with no leeway for anything else and it's a relatively tiny fleet to boot. Just the destroyers alone would be 20 x 20 = 400 DP, nevermind the Cruisers. What will your fleet that looks like 240 DP will do against that?

Also you talk about officers, but the normal assumption is that both fleets will have officers, and so equalise themselves, so it sounds like you don't have any. Get some officers and train them up.

Based on what I have just discovered, the easiest and quickest change you can do is swop over whatever loadout your Legions have with something with burst laser for DOOM mines; even Longbows will do, and Daggers. Alternatively, based on what Serenitis has written, you have at least the minimum number of medium missile mounts for spamming Pilum. let us know how you get on.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 05:36:02 AM by Plantissue »
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Mordodrukow

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Re: Whats the best way to counter phase fleets
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2019, 07:08:06 AM »

240 DP vs 400 DP is not a problem most of the time. And i have 6 officers. The problem is that IBB missions are harder than regular battles. I guess, it is intended.

Lol. Also always forget to mention: i have Augmented drive field on all slow capitals, so, it also adds some difficulty.

Right now i v captured Odyssey and Heron. Also trying to collect more pilums (had 9 in storage). Dont sure, i want to use all capitals, because their shield arcs are too narrow. Also very bad mobility...

Or, may be, it is better to go full high-tech. Will think about that.
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Serenitis

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Re: Whats the best way to counter phase fleets
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2019, 07:11:19 AM »

If you're going to use Pilum spam you need to fit literally everything that isn't the flagship with them.
If possible use Falcon (P). Put ECCM on it, plus converted hangar and a Thunder wing. Use command points to keep them away from battle, but close enough so the fighters can engage.

For that IBB mission, you really want fighters. And you want them hosted on platforms that are as mobile as possible. Herons are fairly good here as they're reasonably quick, and can mount tac lasers which will make phase ships a little more reluctant to close in.
Generally though, the more beams the better. Odyssey or Paragon flagship fitted with a full beam loadout would be ideal.
Personally I'd favour Odyssey for the mobility.

You can do it with just Pila, but it's boring. All that happens is the missiles 'deny' some space so the phase ships either back off or advance.
If they back off they reduce thier breathing room for the next wave until they can't go anywhere but forward. If they advance they get caught between two waves and get more pressured until they max out flux and start taking hits. Either way they waste flux and time and eventually fall to CR attrition and/or dumb descisions.

Adding fighters makes things much quicker/less dull.
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SapphireSage

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Re: Whats the best way to counter phase fleets
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2019, 09:00:02 AM »

IBBs are intended to be more difficult than a normal battle of its size, mostly because of a specialized theme or due to the presence of the special mod ships.

As mentioned before, things that can zone out phase ships for an extended period of time can work wonders against them. You'll also need some PD capabilities to handle the mines. So fast fighters, pilums or other slow zoning LRMS, and heavy use of beams or other consistent fire weapon.

Personally, I'd make heavy use of thunders, or if you have them Harridans from DME. They're extremely fast, have very large engagement range for zoning panicked phase ships, and more importantly pack EMP weapons. The EMP weapons in sufficient numbers will hamper a phase ships mobility once they phase out, even for a bit. Ideally, they would unphase while high on flux causing a flameout from EMP preventing maneuvers until overload. Even away from that, hampering phase mobility is important as their high mobility combined with temporary invulnerability makes them difficult to deal with and EMP saturation limits one of those.

Also, it's important to keep your fleet together while they have sufficient PD to handle mines. Clustering is bad against mines, but a lone ship will get ripped apart by phase ships, especially when harbingers are around.
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Mordodrukow

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Re: Whats the best way to counter phase fleets
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2019, 11:00:54 PM »

So, i v made it. Dunno if IBB always the same, but it was LaCroix.

Their fleet:
Lucifer 2
Doom 1
Euryale 4
Harbinger 2
Tormentor 4
Phantom 4
Afflictior 2
Brawler 1

I v taken (270 points total):
Matriarch 1
Odyssey 3
Heron 1
Charybdis 1
Phalcon (p) 2

Total fighter wings: 16
Pilums: 22

Accidentally lost one Phalcon (well, screw it... it was D-modded anyway). It looks like, it was possible to win with lesser forces, but i swear, it was most fun and satisfying show i v seen in SS so far.  ;D

TY for help, guys!
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