Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy  (Read 24994 times)

Yunru

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
[0.9.1a] Common Drops 1.1 - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« on: October 08, 2019, 01:54:11 PM »

This is a simple mod that adds individual blueprints for all ships, weapons and fighters that are part of a blueprint package but don't have their own rare drop. Unlike the rare drops, however, these are much easier to acquire.
For when you really want your faction to only use specific ships, look to Common Drops.

Changelog:
1.1 - Decreased price of common blueprints.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Yunru

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2019, 07:58:16 AM »

If anyone wants compatibility with a ship pack, just post a link. As long as the ship pack has it's own blueprint, it should be easy to add.

Avanitia

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Local Egg Demon
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2019, 10:22:16 PM »

Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
Logged
You haven't played Starsector unless your storage has one thousand Vulcans in it.

Yunru

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2019, 04:09:39 AM »

Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
That is a viewpoint I have never understood.
If I want to make my mod compatible with another, that's solely my perogative (unless it would require modifying their works), no?

Vex2

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2019, 04:36:27 AM »

Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
That is a viewpoint I have never understood.
If I want to make my mod compatible with another, that's solely my perogative (unless it would require modifying their works), no?

1st, its a courtesy thing.
2nd, probably because certain mods have some things they like keeping unobtainable or exceptionally rare.
3rd, sometimes people just don't like folk doing things with their stuff, especially if they never asked.
Logged

Yunru

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2019, 05:15:47 AM »

It's also a courtesy to ask people if they want to stay for dinner. But, just like asking them to dinner, asking their opinion is pointless as it does not concern them. Or should the author of a weapon mod consult every ship mod author as a courtesy?

As for your second point, while I agree as a generality, in this case those sort of ships are already excluded. The only common drops are ships that are part of a blueprint, aren't rare drops, and lack no_drop after all.

The third point ties into my first point and previous post: It doesn't alter their stuff, it doesn't concern them.

Avanitia

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Local Egg Demon
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2019, 04:40:15 PM »

Shouldn't compability with your mod be discussed with creator of that particular mod first?
That is a viewpoint I have never understood.
If I want to make my mod compatible with another, that's solely my perogative (unless it would require modifying their works), no?

You're affecting how other mods work - similar to Vesperon Combine, or Nexerelin, both of which are opt-in, meaning that if modder wants to make theirs compatible with yours, they can do it. If they don't want your mod affecting theirs, they don't have to do anything.

It's also a courtesy to ask people if they want to stay for dinner. But, just like asking them to dinner, asking their opinion is pointless as it does not concern them. Or should the author of a weapon mod consult every ship mod author as a courtesy?

As for your second point, while I agree as a generality, in this case those sort of ships are already excluded. The only common drops are ships that are part of a blueprint, aren't rare drops, and lack no_drop after all.

The third point ties into my first point and previous post: It doesn't alter their stuff, it doesn't concern them.

In some mods, there are very rare packages containing very powerful ships, weapons, fighters - for example Tahlan Shipworks contains at least one. And yes, they are supposed to drop, making a run in which you can use these things special.

By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.
Logged
You haven't played Starsector unless your storage has one thousand Vulcans in it.

DatonKallandor

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 718
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2019, 05:39:23 PM »

By that extension - you're affecting other mods. Your mod uses any packages that drop, so you're affecting other mods, by making contents of these packages common, when they shouldn't be.

That's frankly an insane leap. He's not forcing anyone to use his mod. The people that don't want these easier blueprints can simply not use this mod.
Logged

Sozzer

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2019, 07:20:57 PM »

inb4 someone makes something to prevent this mod from affecting their mod.
Logged

MesoTroniK

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1731
  • I am going to destroy your ships
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2019, 08:09:29 PM »

That is trivial to do but I hope it never comes to that.

Anyways, I think a lot of folks here are missing the point. Crimson Sky Gaurdian, many modders would probably be totally fine with what this mod does to their work if you made them "compatible" (that really is horrible terminology and not fitting at all), so why not just ask them if you ever want to modify their mods?

Also comparing what this mod does to ship and weapon mods is intellectually dishonest *at best* and a horrible deflection. Also, care to explain Crimson Sky Gaurdian how directly modifying the results other mods produce with their content "does not alter their stuff and doesn't concern them"?

Morgan Rue

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2019, 09:11:49 PM »

Hasn't this conversation happened already with Vesperon Combine? Or at least, something close enough.
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14915.0

Would it be possible for you to make blueprint packages 'unpack' into these individual blueprints instead of giving them common drops? That would fix any 'compatibility' issues if you made it sufficiently robust.
Logged
Dauntless.

Dreamyr

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2019, 10:57:18 PM »

I mostly lurk here but honestly this is pushing my buttons one too many times.

From what I've experienced and read on this board this modding community is one of the most TOXIC I have ever encountered. They act like any mod that might possibly affect the "artistic vision" of their mod is some horrible thing that can't be tolerated and one of you has flat out threatened a lawsuit against another modder who made a mod that did a similar thing as this one. I understand wanting to protect something you've poured dozens if not hundreds of hours into but acting like a bunch of paranoid Gollums does nothing but hurt the community. I don't know if it's even registered with most of you but when this kind of thing happens with the pretty much implied threat that if you guys don't get your way you may "take your toys and go home" so to speak it stifles other modders who are afraid of stepping on your toes for fear of the backlash of the players who enjoy your mods dogpiling them. This is a blatant and clearcut issue of using peer pressure to control what other people may make.

There is a difference between someone making a mod that affects a broad change that will affect other mods and someone say for example taking someone else's mod wholesale, readjusting the flux values of the ships in it and reuploading it. In the former case you are chasing someone out of the sandbox because they built a bridge over the moat around your castle. The latter case you would be justified in that person being punished or having their content removed as it would be akin to them adding something to your sand castle without permission. To extend the analogy even further the modders need to remember as well this is not their Sandbox, it's Alex's. It is not your perogative to decide what is and is not acceptable.

The solution to this problem I feel is that Alex/members of the moderation team need to get together and set down a set of guidelines on what is acceptable in broad strokes for modders to do when it interacts with other mods and what they need to seek permission from other modders whose content they affect.

As noted this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened and with the rising popularity of the game (Sseth's video having reached just shy of 1.5 MILLION views) it will not be the last and I expect it will increase in frequency in the future as more people discover this game and desire to contribute to its modding community.
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2019, 12:22:25 AM »

I too think the default behavior should be that individual blueprints are the default and ship packs are exceedingly rare and valuable. So I really like the idea behind this mod. Although I would like if there was some options in the mod to set the drop rates so that the rare blueprints get more common, but not just too common.

This mod is fine in the way it works right now. But to properly integrate with other mods it should have a merged list for modders to add their own stuff, instead of relying on a curated file that will get obsolete fast.

Some modders might be quick to jump to their guns when stuff like that are said
Quote
If anyone wants compatibility with a ship pack, just post a link
for various reasons (including genuine problems it could cause), but in the end a merged list maintained by the individual modders ensure the maximum compatibility with the widest array of mods, and the minimum amount of work for everyone involved, including you Crimson Skies Gaurdian.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 12:28:03 AM by Tartiflette »
Logged
 

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4112
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2019, 12:46:09 AM »

I feel it's unfair to demand catering to other mods, if this mod doesn't actually do anything to other mods. It changes mechanics that other mods also use, but the purpose is expressly stated and isn't specific to any mod or vanilla faction or design type. It changes how the game is played, and how other mods affect the gameplay as well, but at the same time, this is the express purpose of this mod and you have to go out of your way to get it, and finally, every other mod does the same thing, just to a different (smaller or greater) degree, even if they don't necessarily have similar contents.

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile
Re: [0.9.1a] Common Drops - Cherry picking blueprints made easy
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2019, 01:08:27 AM »

Right now the mod doesn't even change the drop rates of other mods at all, it only changes vanilla drops.

If the author wants to affect mods (and they have mentioned such intention), then a merged list that every modder can add to from their own mods is the quickest, safest and most open way to do it. It's not even a matter of "safeguarding the integrity of other mods", it just ensure the best compatibility outcome with the widest array of mods, it requires the least amount of work to maintain such compatibility, it prevents unintended game-breaking bugs, and if players want to tweak something to their liking, they can still do it exactly the same way.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 01:10:11 AM by Tartiflette »
Logged
 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4