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Author Topic: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?  (Read 24852 times)

DrPhat

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2019, 01:48:31 PM »

Onslaught is strong enough run down standard capitals except Paragon in AI vs AI with ease.

It isn't fair because it's 60 DP vs 40 DP. I think that if you even the playing field. 3 onslaughts vs 2 paragons it would be an incredibly close fight.
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TaLaR

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2019, 02:19:48 PM »

Onslaught is strong enough run down standard capitals except Paragon in AI vs AI with ease.

It isn't fair because it's 60 DP vs 40 DP. I think that if you even the playing field. 3 onslaughts vs 2 paragons it would be an incredibly close fight.

Which was the point for Onslaught being good enough at it's 40 DP. If it could easily defeat 60 DP Paragon in AI vs AI, it would be overpowered (like Radiant or Guardian, which both somehow sit at 40 DP despite surpassing Paragon).

Though I'd bet on 2 Paragons vs 3 Onslaughts. A good build of Paragon can barely defeat 2 standard sim builds of Onslaught in 1 vs 2, skill-less. At 2 vs 3 they'd handle even better Onslaught builds.
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UNSpacecommand

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #77 on: January 13, 2020, 09:51:54 PM »

Hmmm i tried this Onslaught build in AI vs AI and it rekt the AI paragon though?
https://imgur.com/a/0XpXnTb
The only annoying thing is the AI seems to switch to missiles a lot but never fires them 80% of the times
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 10:00:28 PM by UNSpacecommand »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2020, 09:56:54 PM »

And you can make paragon builds that 1v2 sim onslaughts in AI vs. AI... optimized loadouts vs sim loadouts is not a fair comparison.
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UNSpacecommand

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2020, 10:46:41 PM »

And you can make paragon builds that 1v2 sim onslaughts in AI vs. AI... optimized loadouts vs sim loadouts is not a fair comparison.
Did a tweaked design and basically had 1 onslaught XIV solo 2 ai ones.
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NephilimNexus

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2020, 03:44:55 AM »

Honestly, we can talk about min/maxing forever, so I'll just keep it simple:

I use those low-tech 14th BG flying phallic symbols for one thing and one thing only - tanking, pure and simple.  Low-tech ships already get better armor protection by default, so I just throw on heavy armor, bulkheads, pressure doors, etc, and let it be an aggro magnet.

That way all my shiny, expensive and fragile high-tech ships can move up behind them and do damage without worrying about exploding fifteen seconds into the fight.

Astal in back, Onslaught in front = Hammer and Anvil.
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Serenitis

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2020, 06:40:35 AM »

I always feel like leaving the large mounts empty or undersized as such a waste of potential. But whenever I put a large mount on it, I feel like it is such a waste of OP.
Quote
But the side larges are actually bad for frontal warfare, because they waste flux while nearly always missing the target! I've found dual flak to be the best compromise, but its annoying.

It might be worth giving the Onslaught a once over.
The side larges are currently set to an angle of 80°/-80° and have an arc of 150°. Each half of that arc is 75°, so the turrets are short of being able to point 'forwards' by 5° each.
Not a whole lot, but it's frustratingly noticeable.

Maybe it might be worth considering adjusting the arc/angle of these turrets?
Changing the angle to 70°/-70° would give 5° overlap at the front and allow for a tiny amount of leeway and/or convergence.
Changing the arc to 160° would allow pointing directly forward, but no further. 170° would give the same overlap as above.

But what do I know? I am just text.

Quote
Hahaha I want this. One of the mods (SWP?) adds an LP SO Onslaught I think, but it doesn't have the hammer barrages.
It's one of the IBB ships. It is both a joy and a pain to fly.
A joy because its a capital ship which can scoot around like a cruiser and never has to deal with sluggish turning because of flux use.
A pain because a capital being restricted to 450 range is.... Frustrating.
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Plantissue

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2020, 08:55:23 AM »

Hmmm i tried this Onslaught build in AI vs AI and it rekt the AI paragon though?
https://imgur.com/a/0XpXnTb
The only annoying thing is the AI seems to switch to missiles a lot but never fires them 80% of the times
Your picture is an impossible picture. Whatever it is you just posted cannot possibly add up to 407 OP. It barely has any weapons. Perhaps you are missing a couple of needlers or HVD at the front but edited it out?

Btw players skills and combat readiness can affect sim, so you should make sure for 70% CR and not have skills like Coordinated Maneuvres and Electronic Warfare.


Honestly, we can talk about min/maxing forever, so I'll just keep it simple:

I use those low-tech 14th BG flying phallic symbols for one thing and one thing only - tanking, pure and simple.  Low-tech ships already get better armor protection by default, so I just throw on heavy armor, bulkheads, pressure doors, etc, and let it be an aggro magnet.

That way all my shiny, expensive and fragile high-tech ships can move up behind them and do damage without worrying about exploding fifteen seconds into the fight.

Astal in back, Onslaught in front = Hammer and Anvil.

Onslaughts can do plenty of damage. Afterall it does have 2 TPC at the front, each of which are an excellent large weapon. If you wanted slow capital to take damage, a better choice would be a Paragon.

Also "14th BG flying phallic symbols" really? Aren't you embarrassed to write something like this?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 08:59:08 AM by Plantissue »
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SafariJohn

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2020, 09:08:44 AM »

Hmmm i tried this Onslaught build in AI vs AI and it rekt the AI paragon though?
https://imgur.com/a/0XpXnTb
The only annoying thing is the AI seems to switch to missiles a lot but never fires them 80% of the times
Your picture is an impossible picture. Whatever it is you just posted cannot possibly add up to 407 OP. It barely has any weapons. Perhaps you are missing a couple of needlers or HVD at the front but edited it out?

What is visible adds up to 377. There are a couple hullmods offscreen (note the scrollbar) that presumably add up to 30. Total: 407
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SCC

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2020, 09:21:25 AM »

Onslaught and other ships with awkward turret arcs would benefit from autofire AI not firing weapons, unless the centre of the target is inside the weapon's fire arc, or close to it. Currently, it fires either when shield radius or collision radius is inside the arc, and neither one is any form fitting.

Plantissue

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2020, 09:45:44 AM »

Hmmm i tried this Onslaught build in AI vs AI and it rekt the AI paragon though?
https://imgur.com/a/0XpXnTb
The only annoying thing is the AI seems to switch to missiles a lot but never fires them 80% of the times
Your picture is an impossible picture. Whatever it is you just posted cannot possibly add up to 407 OP. It barely has any weapons. Perhaps you are missing a couple of needlers or HVD at the front but edited it out?

What is visible adds up to 377. There are a couple hullmods offscreen (note the scrollbar) that presumably add up to 30. Total: 407
I see, my mistake thanks.
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Thaago

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2020, 11:57:13 AM »

Onslaught and other ships with awkward turret arcs would benefit from autofire AI not firing weapons, unless the centre of the target is inside the weapon's fire arc, or close to it. Currently, it fires either when shield radius or collision radius is inside the arc, and neither one is any form fitting.

Exactly this. Sometimes the side larges will fire at a target dead ahead despite being juuuuust out of arc. So they always miss, but are costing hundreds and hundreds of flux/second.

I've taken a liking to putting a Hellbore in the front large. Its a very efficient way of dealing heavy armor damage, and honestly its DPS/OP isn't all that bad because of how cheap it is.
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UNSpacecommand

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2020, 04:33:24 PM »

Onslaught and other ships with awkward turret arcs would benefit from autofire AI not firing weapons, unless the centre of the target is inside the weapon's fire arc, or close to it. Currently, it fires either when shield radius or collision radius is inside the arc, and neither one is any form fitting.

Exactly this. Sometimes the side larges will fire at a target dead ahead despite being juuuuust out of arc. So they always miss, but are costing hundreds and hundreds of flux/second.

I've taken a liking to putting a Hellbore in the front large. Its a very efficient way of dealing heavy armor damage, and honestly its DPS/OP isn't all that bad because of how cheap it is.
the hep gun is also a good alternative when u want to put pressure against a shield. works decently well when paired with forward focus hyper velocity medium guns
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MesoTroniK

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2020, 04:55:13 PM »

Onslaught and other ships with awkward turret arcs would benefit from autofire AI not firing weapons, unless the centre of the target is inside the weapon's fire arc, or close to it. Currently, it fires either when shield radius or collision radius is inside the arc, and neither one is any form fitting.
It uses the elliptical targeting radius (the red thing), not the circular radius checks like shield and collision.

Tackywheat1

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Re: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version?
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2020, 05:02:35 PM »

I always feel like leaving the large mounts empty or undersized as such a waste of potential. But whenever I put a large mount on it, I feel like it is such a waste of OP.
Quote
But the side larges are actually bad for frontal warfare, because they waste flux while nearly always missing the target! I've found dual flak to be the best compromise, but its annoying.

It might be worth giving the Onslaught a once over.
The side larges are currently set to an angle of 80°/-80° and have an arc of 150°. Each half of that arc is 75°, so the turrets are short of being able to point 'forwards' by 5° each.
Not a whole lot, but it's frustratingly noticeable.

Maybe it might be worth considering adjusting the arc/angle of these turrets?
Changing the angle to 70°/-70° would give 5° overlap at the front and allow for a tiny amount of leeway and/or convergence.
Changing the arc to 160° would allow pointing directly forward, but no further. 170° would give the same overlap as above.

But what do I know? I am just text.

Quote
Hahaha I want this. One of the mods (SWP?) adds an LP SO Onslaught I think, but it doesn't have the hammer barrages.
It's one of the IBB ships. It is both a joy and a pain to fly.
A joy because its a capital ship which can scoot around like a cruiser and never has to deal with sluggish turning because of flux use.
A pain because a capital being restricted to 450 range is.... Frustrating.

Good thing burn drive exists. I just dive into the thick of combat with storm needlers and hellbores :)
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