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[Plantissue]

I always feel like leaving the large mounts empty or undersized as such a waste of potential. But whenever I put a large mount on it, I feel like it is such a waste of OP. As a compromise I put hellbores on the sides, as they are low flux and OP, only to watch them miss constantly, because they like to shoot at the edge of shields that entere their arc and it takes another 3 seconds before they can fire again. At some point or another I've gone through both devastators and dual flaks, and both seem underwhelming. I suppose the idea behind the awkward large mounts is that the Onslaught can provide good firepower to everywhere except the quadrant directly behind it, but in practice the TPC become the main weapons.

[Lucky33]

You are quoting me in the first place, so I think I know what I am talking about best, not you. Why lie? Why do this?

Neither you are talking to yourself nor you are topic starter. This is why if you want to actually discuss the question stop forcing your views on others.

[Locklave]

I think a lot of the issues with Low tech ships would go away if they had reasonable turning speeds.

[Igncom1]

Yeah they are supposed to be 'modernized' variants of the originals.

A venerable design the Onslaught-class battleships were first created to serve the Domain of Man eons ago, before the development of advanced strike weapons, fighter craft, modern energy weapons, and shield systems.

When first launched from orbital dock, they must have surely dwarfed any other ship in existence and intimidated entire systems. Some even say that they were built to combat non-humans in a long forgotten war, in which the Domain was triumphant. Much later, Domain engineers made modifications to the blueprints to include a shield system, upgrade the FTL drives and reduce the necessary crew complement. Even with other battleship blueprints available to the Sector, the Onslaught remains the easiest to manufacture due to the brutal simplicity of its systems.

A ship designed without shields in mind, built to be able to withstand a heavy barrage of enemy fire and strike back while protecting its crew is much loved by its officers and men. And strike back it can. The Onslaught's unmatched ballistic potential can devastate entire fleets in minutes, its only drawback a logistical dependency on ammunition.

So we should be on, what Mark 40,000 or something by now right? Of Onslaught designs.

I'd love better Onslaughts, or even many different versions with specific modifications in vanilla. Like an Onslaught-B that has no energy guns but better turning. Or an Onslaught-C with hammer launchers.

[Goumindong]

An LP onslaught that replaces the TPCs with hammer barrages and adds safety overrides

[SCC]

It's true that, applying real-life logic, there should be many variants of the Onslaught. However, from gameplay perspective, it would change it from the Onslaught into an Onslaught, when the game already has a lot of customisation. At some point it becomes an information overload, a meaningless buzz.
As for the side larges: I wish that autofire didn't fire, until it has the centre of the ship in its arc. It presumably would help a lot in this case, especially for anti-armour weapons.

[kenwth81]

It's true that, applying real-life logic, there should be many variants of the Onslaught. However, from gameplay perspective, it would change it from the Onslaught into an Onslaught, when the game already has a lot of customisation. At some point it becomes an information overload, a meaningless buzz.
As for the side larges: I wish that autofire didn't fire, until it has the centre of the ship in its arc. It presumably would help a lot in this case, especially for anti-armour weapons.

I wouldn't call mods that effectively change the way you play a meaningless buzz, rather quality of life improvements. Fixing onslaught is simple and much easier by creating an alternative version. Different variants of the Onslaught already exist on mods. Or you can tweak it yourself. Unless the fundamental motive is advocating an official change to the officially sanctioned or recognized original onslaught.

[Plantissue]

You are quoting me in the first place, so I think I know what I am talking about best, not you. Why lie? Why do this?

Neither you are talking to yourself nor you are topic starter. This is why if you want to actually discuss the question stop forcing your views on others.

Where did anyone talk about "We are talking about killing off an enemy fleet faster than you run out of deployment time." Who exactly are we? It wasn't you, and it wasn't me. Just because you realise how ridiculous it is to choose a specific anti Capital ship weapon to make your argument that you would prefer to face capital ships, you went and changed the top of discussion. There's no reason for you to do this.

[Lucky33]

You are quoting me in the first place, so I think I know what I am talking about best, not you. Why lie? Why do this?

Neither you are talking to yourself nor you are topic starter. This is why if you want to actually discuss the question stop forcing your views on others.

Where did anyone talk about "We are talking about killing off an enemy fleet faster than you run out of deployment time." Who exactly are we? It wasn't you, and it wasn't me. Just because you realise how ridiculous it is to choose a specific anti Capital ship weapon to make your argument that you would prefer to face capital ships, you went and changed the top of discussion. There's no reason for you to do this.

Stop whining and start reading.

TPCs could be easier for AI to use.  Even with 0.8 efficiency, it is not hard to cap flux because the AI is too trigger-happy for its own good, especially if TPCs are grouped together in one group.

Consider default size and it will change things. At 120 DP (which you will get while your fleet is outnumbered) you can get either three low- to mid- tech capitals or two hightec.

That means the sluggish Onslaught (and Legion) is a royal pain to retreat when it runs out of PPT in multi-round endgame fights, even with edge-camping.  Small map size that guarantees multi-round combat really hurts sluggish ships.  It kind of hurts to put Hardened Subsystems, especially if I want campaign mods on it too.

If I need 40 DP battleship for multi-round combat, Conquest seems easier to use.

[Thaago]

  Grrr. We were having a nice discussion about Onslaught builds and optimization tweaks and potential changes!

I always feel like leaving the large mounts empty or undersized as such a waste of potential. But whenever I put a large mount on it, I feel like it is such a waste of OP. As a compromise I put hellbores on the sides, as they are low flux and OP, only to watch them miss constantly, because they like to shoot at the edge of shields that entere their arc and it takes another 3 seconds before they can fire again. At some point or another I've gone through both devastators and dual flaks, and both seem underwhelming. I suppose the idea behind the awkward large mounts is that the Onslaught can provide good firepower to everywhere except the quadrant directly behind it, but in practice the TPC become the main weapons.

This matches my own experiences. In theory, having the 4 "corner" mediums be guns instead of flak gives each broadside 3 mediums + 1 large + 2 medium missiles (although in many builds I don't use the central mediums, so its less, but this is a hypothetical 'all around' Onslaught build). But the side larges are actually bad for frontal warfare, because they waste flux while nearly always missing the target! I've found dual flak to be the best compromise, but its annoying.

An LP onslaught that replaces the TPCs with hammer barrages and adds safety overrides

Hahaha I want this. One of the mods (SWP?) adds an LP SO Onslaught I think, but it doesn't have the hammer barrages.

[Alex]

@Plantissue, @Lucky33: please keep it civil. If this escalates or continues, I'll have to hand out warnings/etc, depending.

[Plantissue]

Grrr. We were having a nice discussion about Onslaught builds and optimization tweaks and potential changes!

I always feel like leaving the large mounts empty or undersized as such a waste of potential. But whenever I put a large mount on it, I feel like it is such a waste of OP. As a compromise I put hellbores on the sides, as they are low flux and OP, only to watch them miss constantly, because they like to shoot at the edge of shields that entere their arc and it takes another 3 seconds before they can fire again. At some point or another I've gone through both devastators and dual flaks, and both seem underwhelming. I suppose the idea behind the awkward large mounts is that the Onslaught can provide good firepower to everywhere except the quadrant directly behind it, but in practice the TPC become the main weapons.

This matches my own experiences. In theory, having the 4 "corner" mediums be guns instead of flak gives each broadside 3 mediums + 1 large + 2 medium missiles (although in many builds I don't use the central mediums, so its less, but this is a hypothetical 'all around' Onslaught build). But the side larges are actually bad for frontal warfare, because they waste flux while nearly always missing the target! I've found dual flak to be the best compromise, but its annoying.

An LP onslaught that replaces the TPCs with hammer barrages and adds safety overrides

Hahaha I want this. One of the mods (SWP?) adds an LP SO Onslaught I think, but it doesn't have the hammer barrages.

Yeah, though I find it depends on whether you are piloting it or not. If you are, you can swing around and focuse with 2 large and the 2 central mediums, or if you really want to, add in the other mediums. That's a lot of firepower available at a very specific angle. For the AI, there doesn't seem to be a good "fix" for the problem.

[CommandoDude]

I don't understand why the Onslaught needs to have such terrible vent capacity.

I run 60 added vents plus vent capacitors PLUS mostly flux efficient weapons (devastator cannons, plasma flamers, HMGs) and only ONE high flux weapon (Shard Cannon from mod) and it still has barely any fight sustainability.

[TaLaR]

Onslaught is strong enough run down standard capitals except Paragon in AI vs AI with ease. Never a clean victory in terms of armor/hull damage, but it gets the job done with very high degree of reliability.

At 40 DP it doesn't need any buffs (except maybe some convenience: a bit wider inward angles on TPCs, smarter targeting with side-guns so that it doesn't waste flux on targets that are slightly outside of arcs).

It's not the best ship for player piloting, but that's a given. You want fast glass-canon ships for that.

[DrPhat]

I'll build a 7 onslaught build with a griffon escort and see how it goes against remnants. I suspect putting 4 harpoons on each will make them pretty powerfull. Use 3 mark IX autocannons and some light needlers.

Heavy armor and pilots with defensive skills. I suspect you could hit full assault with this build and never lose a ship. Unless your fighting 3 or more ordo fleets.