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[Trensicourt]

Simple title.

I've been doing a run with a Paragon and Astral Fleet. Although you can put more Onslaughts in a battle, the Paragon has significantly more flux and efficient usage of them - fortress shields and low hard flux/damage. Onslaughts are more easily surrounded due to a few weak rear mounts. Furthermore, Onslaughts require more fuel and crew costs per DP. Maintenance doesn't matter if the max deployment size is considered.

An Onslaught XIV is a slightly better version of Onslaught, so not much of a difference there. The only saving grace of Onslaughts are their high armor and thermal pulse cannons. Both of which are meaningless if their flux capacities get overwhelmed.

This leads to the title: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version ?

Btw imo, this is my current stance on capital ships: Paragon > [ Astral = Legion XIV = Odyssey ] > Onslaught XIV > Conquest

[pedro1_1]

Simple title.

I've been doing a run with a Paragon and Astral Fleet. Although you can put more Onslaughts in a battle, the Paragon has significantly more flux and efficient usage of them - fortress shields and low hard flux/damage. Onslaughts are more easily surrounded due to a few weak rear mounts. Furthermore, Onslaughts require more fuel and crew costs per DP. Maintenance doesn't matter if the max deployment size is considered.

An Onslaught XIV is a slightly better version of Onslaught, so not much of a difference there. The only saving grace of Onslaughts are their high armor and thermal pulse cannons. Both of which are meaningless if their flux capacities get overwhelmed.

This leads to the title: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version ?

Btw imo, this is my current stance on capital ships: Paragon > [ Astral = Legion XIV = Odyssey ] > Onslaught XIV > Conquest

Balistic Kinetic, it is just more fit to removing shields than it looks, and it can trade armor for flux advantage if it's enemy has no Emp weapons

[Eji1700]

Why-

It's a good capital with a ton of armor, pretty great mobility, and like all caps a ton of weapons.

Why instead of X-

Welll......I think one of the current weaknesses of the game is that it like to propose that some ships/tech is harder to find than others, and that there's tradoffs beteween X and Y.  In practice, yes ideally you'd probably mostly run paragons/tempests/drovers. 

Do you need to optimize-

Eh not really?  I like doing "low/midtech" runs where I try to limit the amount of high tech I use (usually only a player ship tempest), and there's rarely an issue and I'm more than happy to field and onslaught (especially in my hands, but i have some AI builds as well).  It probably does need a buff, no question, but I think there's a bigger question of how to balance low tech ships vs high tech, as getting as many paragons(or mostly any other ship) isn't that hard in the scope of the game.

This leads to lots of topics like this one (why x instead of y), which I do think the vanilla game needs a better answer to (lots of options there).

In the meantime, I think the short answer is:

No it's not better than a paragon.  If you just want the best possible ships in your fleet, you probably wouldn't run one, as even ignoring some of the larger scope issues above it's on the weak side for capitals (i mostly mount hellbores in large slots to help with its flux issues )

[Megas]

This leads to the title: Why ever pick or make the Onslaught, or even the XIV version ?

Aside from being the only ship or blueprint the player may find early in the game, I could bring several if I want to bring more than a thousand marines per ship if I want to raid Sindria/Kazeron/Chichomoztoc for their nanoforge or synchrotron.  I guess I could bring Starliners instead, but if I can bring Onslaughts or Legions instead, I can have my troop transport fight as a true battleship and bring enough fodder for ground assault.

I would like see Onslaught and/or Legion gain Ground Support Package built-in hullmod.

As for fighting, Onslaught has terrible dissipation.  It would be nice to comfortably support more than a few needlers.

[Vind]

Onslaught need a buff. Simple would be to remove flux from built in TPCs.

[TaLaR]

Onslaught is not useless. Sure, it can't get a clean victory over any worthy opponent. But Onslaught can win alright, just needs play aggressively and accept trading some (possibly a lot) armor/hull for it.

AI vs AI, skill-less:
Conquest: as long as Onslaught keeps using burn drive, it wins.
Odyssey: unless Odyssey gets a lucky overload with Sabots (or even two overloads), Onslaught wins.
Legion and Astral: Onslaught is the king of flak PD and usually wins by depleting fighters and burn driving toward carrier.
Paragon: Onslaught loses. The only direct combat capital that can win against Paragon in AI vs AI is Conquest. Even then this covers only Paragon builds that are weaker at long range (not 4xTL or 2xTL+2xHVD) and requires full specialization from Conquest.

Onslaughts may be not attractive for use in player fleet due to almost unavoidable armor/hull attrition and being easy to exploit in fleet fights (just get behind it), but they are not weak.

Ai-wise, Onslaught really needs to make better use of Burn Drive. Using it at wrong time is suicide, not using it at right time is slow death to opponent superior at long range.

[intrinsic_parity]

Onslaught need a buff. Simple would be to remove flux from built in TPCs.

This would be completely broken... I assume you mean make TPC not cost flux to fire? That's 1250 burst dps x2. It's basically 2 1000 range auto pulse lasers with better armor penetration for free. It's like giving the ship 2000 temporary dissipation when it's firing the TPCs. Thats more dissipation than any ship in the game...

Honestly just scaling back the flux and damage proportionally on the TPC would be helpful. Making it slightly more efficient would also be good but TPC are already quite strong compared to large energy weapons. The onslaught just doesn't have enough dissipation to use them effectively.

[Grievous69]

Not to be rude but you can always tell a player is new if he thinks the Conquest is the worst capital. Anyways on topic, just because other capitals are better, that doesn't make Onslaught bad. For 40 DP it's a solid capital, and I think others have explained it well. I do agree that it could use more base dissipation because what it has now is simply pathetic for a battleship with that much weapon mounts. It also has a lot of weird turret and hardpoint problems with arcs but I'd be happy with just a dissipation buff.

[Lucky33]

if the max deployment size is considered

Consider default size and it will change things. At 120 DP (which you will get while your fleet is outnumbered) you can get either three low- to mid- tech capitals or two hightec.

Role of the PC Onslaught is the long range initiator (2 TPC + 3 HVD) and anchor ship if things get aggressive. Two Conquests provide even more long range support with their Gausses but this fleet really shines when four Hurricanes and eight Harpoon pods will start removing ships from existence.

With hightec you can pick two Paragons which lack that glorious follow up and in the long range battle stuck with Tachlances+HVDs. Its fine by itself and gets the job done. In time. With Paragon+Astral combo you will have trouble organizing strikes against multiple ships. In Paragon+Odyssey duo you better control the latter.

[Megas]

TPCs could be easier for AI to use.  Even with 0.8 efficiency, it is not hard to cap flux because the AI is too trigger-happy for its own good, especially if TPCs are grouped together in one group.

Consider default size and it will change things. At 120 DP (which you will get while your fleet is outnumbered) you can get either three low- to mid- tech capitals or two hightec.

That means the sluggish Onslaught (and Legion) is a royal pain to retreat when it runs out of PPT in multi-round endgame fights, even with edge-camping.  Small map size that guarantees multi-round combat really hurts sluggish ships.  It kind of hurts to put Hardened Subsystems, especially if I want campaign mods on it too.

If I need 40 DP battleship for multi-round combat, Conquest seems easier to use.

[Plantissue]

Onslaught is the weakest Capital. But I say that of lots of capitals, so take that with a pinch of salt. The Onslaught does one thing extremely well, and that's to mount a lot of flak cannons. A pair of Squalls? No problem. A mass of piranha bombs? Who needs to dodge? Not the Onslaught, because it cannot. The paragon can't dodge either, though I guess the Paragon can just turn fortress shield on. I guess the Onslaught fulfills the role of an interesting ship to fight against. Frontal burst damage, tough against low damage weapons, weak rear.

Playing with a fleet of them, compared to Conquests, they are much more likely to get into trouble and not be able to withdraw behind another ship in time, but conversely, they are much more able to survive long enough for help to arrive. Compared to Paragon, they are terrible, but can chase down withdrawing ships, even destroyers, that the Paragon cannot kill in time. Compared with Odyssey, they got longer range and so can ward away frigates and destroyers much more easily. Then again odyssey can chase and retreat and just kill them. I suppose the best you can say of the Onslaught is that it is a good place for your other ships to retreat behind. That's not really high praise though.

[Lucky33]

TPCs could be easier for AI to use.  Even with 0.8 efficiency, it is not hard to cap flux because the AI is too trigger-happy for its own good, especially if TPCs are grouped together in one group.

Nah. AI is prone to use them linked even if they are in different groups. And burndriving into death balls.

That means the sluggish Onslaught (and Legion) is a royal pain to retreat when it runs out of PPT in multi-round endgame fights, even with edge-camping.  Small map size that guarantees multi-round combat really hurts sluggish ships.  It kind of hurts to put Hardened Subsystems, especially if I want campaign mods on it too.

Im into Combat Endurance.

If I need 40 DP battleship for multi-round combat, Conquest seems easier to use.

Its easier for AI. I made some (almost)symmetrical balanced loadout and it seems OK.

[Megas]

AI will not always fire both TPCs if they are separated in two groups.  It helps a bit.

I use Combat Endurance too!  It is not enough with a small map size where enemy uses ten capitals and rest mostly cruisers, tricking them in over a long period of time, while I can only use few ships (if they survive until PPT times out).

[Plantissue]

We are mostly talking about AI use are we not? Though there is some value to be taken with personally piloting an Onslaught (the silly turning dance so you can fire its TPC and then turn to fire two large ballistic mounts and perhaps the 2 middle medium ballistic mounts as well, and choosing when to activate Burn ship system), if you have Capitals, other capitals provide a lot more value, when personally piloted.

It sounds really stupid, but even with combat endurance, it is possible to reach low CR that cause problems (40 or 20 depending on skills) especially on normal battle size.
If Conquest is hard for you to use, that doesn't really change the validity on the Onslaught when personally piloting it.

[RustyCabbage]

Paragon: Onslaught loses. The only direct combat capital that can win against Paragon in AI vs AI is Conquest. Even then this covers only Paragon builds that are weaker at long range (not 4xTL or 2xTL+2xHVD) and requires full specialization from Conquest.

Slightly off-topic, but do you have an example Conquest loadout that can do this or a video that shows this happening? I've always found the AI Conquest to be rather lackluster, so seeing it beat a Paragon heads up would be very enlightening.

OT: As it is the Onslaught performs decently as a fleet anchor, but I think the Onslaught (and perhaps the Legion) could use a little love with something like an additional 100-200 base flux dissipation. It's hard to design decent loadouts for it that aren't terribly overfluxed (not so much a player issue as one for the AI). AI being a little smarter with Burn Drive would also help a lot.