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[goduranus]

Is that the only small stock missile that that doesn't have a bigger sized launcher? As a result ships with medium and large Hybrid slots can't put atropos. Maybe a medium sized Tornado Atropos?

[MesoTroniK]

It would step on the toes of the Harpoon Pod too much. Some weapons really aren't meant to exist at all size classes.

[Goumindong]

It would probably also be too good. Think about how its structured in its small iteration. 2 OP/Missile. 4 OP total. A 5 OP launcher would need to cost 10, the same as a reaper. But if it has the same fire cycle of the reaper its kinda eh. If it maintains the same structure as the small is a 20 OP medium launcher that has 10 ammo and launches 2 at a time. Which is... kinda hilarious really. You could go 12 OP for 3 sets of 2 but that really steps on harpoons and reapers (as you rarely run out of reapers with the typhoon)

It is kinda something that sounds like fun, just like a medium hammer launcher*. But i am not sure it works.

*which i would call the “jack hanmer launcher” and it would fire 10 hammers on a 1 second CD for 10 to 14 OP

[MesoTroniK]

Medium Hammer also should not exist, for it steps on the toes of the med Reaper too much and is very overpowered on the conceptual level due to speed and saturation resulting in very reliable hits even in the face of PD. Being a better choice every time unless you are doing nothing but shooting at Onslaughts and stations all day. And arguably not even on the Onslaughts...

[Goumindong]

Yea it definitely would be. But it still sounds fun

[Wyvern]

Personally, I think a 10 OP medium Atropos launcher, with twelve ammo, that fires two missiles per salvo would definitely have a place - and I think that the small atropos launchers are definitely overpriced.  The single-shot one should be 1 OP, and the two-shot atropos should be 2 OP or -maybe- three; they're comparable to hammers or harpoons, not reapers.  Not anymore.  (Atropos used to be more damaging, but got nerfed when the fighter revamp came around.)

[Schwartz]

As was said, Atropos competes with Harpoon because it's simply better. If there was a 10 OP Atropos launcher with 12 ammo, 2 salvo, I would put it on all my ships and would never, ever use Harpoons again. The 2-shot Atropos is a clear upgrade to the 3-shot Harpoon for me. I might not use it if it's too early in the game and Harpoons do fine against unshielded pirates and smaller threats. Or if I simply don't have it yet. Or if my flagship is required to carry a bigger burden, where I might use Annihilators instead and go for longevity.

Manual aim weapons don't have this problem. They are are harder to use, harder to exploit and can't be fired from the rear ranks. Which is why the med Reaper launcher is.. not even that great to me. YMMV.

Remember when the Atropos change came about and people were saying "Omg, they're like Templar Clarents!" That's how powerful that kind of damage paired with high speed is.

[Megas]

Remember when the Atropos change came about and people were saying "Omg, they're like Templar Clarents!" That's how powerful that kind of damage paired with high speed is.

And they were great.  One of the few missiles that did not need Missile Specialization to be useful during its heyday in 0.7.2a.  They also cost more OP (3 or 6), but were worth it.  I would like to see that incarnation make a comeback.

Now, they are overpriced Harpoon that is slightly faster and tougher, but much less range and cannot be used point-blank like Harpoons.  They are too wimpy at 1000 damage (except maybe from Dagger wing).  They are more reliable than Harpoon, which is generally unreliable to begin with.

Harpoon and Atropos are too similar to each other.

[Grievous69]

Loooool we have so many missing roles that could be filled, yet some think we need more medium missiles... And HE ones out of all. I'd rather see a medium kinetic option that's not a Sabot Pod since that is really hard to find, or an energy missile. That said, more weapon options are always nice, but I really don't see the need of bigger Atropos.

[Plantissue]

Harpoon are similar to Atropos in that they both are good vs Frigates when most other missile are not. However Harpoon is great for catching and finishing off retreating frigates whilst the Atropos seems better against larger ships and as a general strike weapon. Personally I'll like to see Pilum and Harpoon combined and met midway together. I don't like the Pilum as a weapon design. Atropos is cooler looking than Harpoons. Perhaps to compensate it should be combined with the Harpoon, making it slightly slower but slightly longer ranged. But I guess most people wouldn't like the idea of combing 3 weapons to remove 1 weapon.

[Megas]

Harpoon are similar to Atropos in that they both are good vs Frigates when most other missile are not. However Harpoon is great for catching and finishing off retreating frigates whilst the Atropos seems better against larger ships and as a general strike weapon. Personally I'll like to see Pilum and Harpoon combined and met midway together. I don't like the Pilum as a weapon design. Atropos is cooler looking than Harpoons. Perhaps to compensate it should be combined with the Harpoon, making it slightly slower but slightly longer ranged. But I guess most people wouldn't like the idea of combing 3 weapons to remove 1 weapon.

Pilums used to be slightly slower and clumsier Harpoons during 0.6.5a (read: faster and more agile than today).  Combined with high hp, it was too easy to reach critical mass and kill everything.  Player could spam Pilum Vigilance (or other ships with Fast Missile Racks) and things died.  Pilum with Missile Specialization 10 was effectively an unlimited (or regenerating) Harpoon at the time.

If Atropos did more damage (about 1200) and/or could hit point blank, I probably would be fine with it.  More range should not hurt.  I have considered Atropos rack and Expanded Missile Racks on bigger ships, but the range is a bit short for that to be useful.

[ThePollie]

It's a *** Torpedo that can be effortlessly dodged by anything capable of movement. It's sole saving grace is that it's largely ***-proof by merit of a mediocre guidance system that becomes instantly obsolete the second you gain an IQ over 5 and can aim a Reaper torpedo.

[Plantissue]

Harpoon are similar to Atropos in that they both are good vs Frigates when most other missile are not. However Harpoon is great for catching and finishing off retreating frigates whilst the Atropos seems better against larger ships and as a general strike weapon. Personally I'll like to see Pilum and Harpoon combined and met midway together. I don't like the Pilum as a weapon design. Atropos is cooler looking than Harpoons. Perhaps to compensate it should be combined with the Harpoon, making it slightly slower but slightly longer ranged. But I guess most people wouldn't like the idea of combing 3 weapons to remove 1 weapon.

Pilums used to be slightly slower and clumsier Harpoons during 0.6.5a (read: faster and more agile than today).  Combined with high hp, it was too easy to reach critical mass and kill everything.  Player could spam Pilum Vigilance (or other ships with Fast Missile Racks) and things died.  Pilum with Missile Specialization 10 was effectively an unlimited (or regenerating) Harpoon at the time.

Atropos is fine. I don't really have a problem with it. They might be considered a bit overpriced, but they are fast and reliable against frigates.

If Atropos did more damage (about 1200) and/or could hit point blank, I probably would be fine with it.  More range should not hurt.  I have considered Atropos rack and Expanded Missile Racks on bigger ships, but the range is a bit short for that to be useful.

I know, that was the version I first started playing this game I think. It also used to have a lot more HP. What I was suggesting is that long range regenerating missiles shouldn't really exist, but the harpoon should be made halfway to a Pilum to somewhat ameliorate those who do want long range missiles.

Atropos is fine. I don't really have a problem with it. They might be considered a bit overpriced, but they are fast and reliable against frigates and destroyers alike.

[billi999]

I have been using the small atropos a lot on Tempests in my recent game and having noticed the absence of a medium atropos launcher, set one up in my mod exactly as Wyvern described (2x6 volleys). It's not always as much of a no-brainer to take over harpoons as you might think due to the range difference (1200 vs. 2500 iirc), it means that you might want to think twice on e.g.; a conquest as if you're broadsiding, from the opposite side they burn out before reaching the target. Also on e.g.; an Onslaught since the medium missiles are so far back it's quite a cut to range.

I've considered making an anti-fighter medium missile weapon that's somewhere between a swamer and locust, but focuses on precision rather than Macross Missile Massacre. It'd only launch in single shots, but the missile would have:

• Good tracking but only moderate speed
• High HP
• Enough of a payload for a guaranteed kill or overload on a slow enough fighter, but not so much that it'd be effective against larger ships
• 10-20 ammo depending on payload

That could give high-tech ships an anti-fighter option that doesn't require them to sacrifice PD or other weapons.

Edit: meant to say Onslaught on the second example of the medium atropos.

[Megas]

Atropos is fine. I don't really have a problem with it. They might be considered a bit overpriced, but they are fast and reliable against frigates and destroyers alike.

Single Atropos are overpriced at 2 OP, but 1 OP is probably too cheap, when 1 OP has single Harpoon or Hammer, not to mention 2000 damage Atropos was worth the 3 OP.  Even if modern Atropos is overpriced, there is not enough granularity for 1.5 OP, which leaves making it a bit stronger.  That is why I would like to see 1200 damage on Atropos, to be roughly two-thirds of a 0.7.2a Atropos.  (0.7.2a Atropos was an excellent missile.)  If it has to stay at 1000 damage, then it needs to hit at point-blank, but then it is simply a reskinned Harpoon that is a bit more reliable but much less range.  I think Alex tried it at 1200 damage, but it was said to be too powerful on fighters.  (Sort of like 66% Damper Field too powerful on Mora, but 50% too weak on frigates.)