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Author Topic: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it  (Read 2085 times)

Darkfirephoenix

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 11:55:48 AM »

I don't think that would work, scuttling is more "rip out as much usefull stuff as possible, as fast as possible without any regard where it was and what it did".
If you want blueprints then you would need a dedicated place to take it apart and study it closely, which in itself would take quiet the amount of time and then also compile the findings and make a usable blueprint out of it. So you would need a "Reverse-Engineering" place/building where you drop it off and wait for your people to finish analyzing it.
On the same note: maybe a "Scrapyard" that boosts the amount of materials you could get out of the ships because you dissasemble them compared to simply scuttling em.
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SCC

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 12:46:17 PM »

It would either be so rare, you would never do it, or it would be useful enough and people would no longer use the risky option of raiding.

Darkfirephoenix

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 01:03:20 PM »

It would either be so rare, you would never do it, or it would be useful enough and people would no longer use the risky option of raiding.
Well with Raiding you still get a bunch of other resources/weapons and far often you get those big blueprint collections. The original idea could possibly far too easy if you get lucky (heck you could just hunt their fleets to get the ships and don't care about the D-Mods because you just want the blueprint), my idea would take more time and money (also I think D-Mods on the ship would slow down/increase the cost of the reverse engineering) also I think that the Factions would get really *** when they realize you are reverse engineering their ships (unless maybe you are commissioned by them, then ya would have to pay a fine for it)
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Yunru

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2019, 01:21:14 PM »

It would either be so rare, you would never do it, or it would be useful enough and people would no longer use the risky option of raiding.
The rarity isn't in the blueprint dropping, it's in getting enough of the specific ships to scuttle.

Amoebka

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2019, 04:00:44 AM »

From what I understand that would go against both the lore and the flavour of the game? Flavour-wise, we are in the dark ages, nobody understands enough about the spaceship technology to reverse-engineer things. Lore-wise, nanoforges are black boxes that take blueprints as production chips, so we can't manufacture blueprints for forges even if we know how the ship works.
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Yunru

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2019, 04:36:39 AM »

From what I understand that would go against both the lore and the flavour of the game? Flavour-wise, we are in the dark ages, nobody understands enough about the spaceship technology to reverse-engineer things.
Sure, but you don't have to understand something to be able to build it by rote, which is what it'd represent.
Quote
Lore-wise, nanoforges are black boxes that take blueprints as production chips, so we can't manufacture blueprints for forges even if we know how the ship works.
But then, how does that work with Heavy Industry that lacks a nanoforge? They can clearly still build ships.

mvp7

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2019, 05:56:32 AM »

Blueprints from scuttling doesn't really make sense lore-wise. I imagine any ship production without nanoforges mainly uses parts from scuttled ships.

From gameplay point of view I don't think it would work either. Basically, you would be going around core systems, buying ships you want and immediately scuttle them hoping for a BP drop. It would be a boring and unrewarding way to get specific blueprints. Restoring derelict ships just for scuttling would be a chore as well.
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Yunru

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2019, 06:35:16 AM »

Blueprints from scuttling doesn't really make sense lore-wise. I imagine any ship production without nanoforges mainly uses parts from scuttled ships.

From gameplay point of view I don't think it would work either. Basically, you would be going around core systems, buying ships you want and immediately scuttle them hoping for a BP drop. It would be a boring and unrewarding way to get specific blueprints. Restoring derelict ships just for scuttling would be a chore as well.
For the smaller ships maybe. But how often does a bigger ship end up for sale outside of a commission market?

Megas

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2019, 06:48:18 AM »

For the smaller ships maybe. But how often does a bigger ship end up for sale outside of a commission market?
Frequently if the market is big enough.  I have seen one (D) mod Paragons for sale at my size 7+ colonies with Commerce (that adds Open Market).  True, there are still many civilians, but military ships leak through.  Of course, you can order and produce ships if you have Heavy Industry and blueprints to build your faction's ships.

There are not many large markets in core worlds, though.  Kazeron, Sindria, and Chichomoztoc.  Maybe one more in Church space.
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LucusLoC

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2019, 01:12:59 AM »

I am gong to agree that this would not be a good mechanic, but I would also like to see more value from sucesfully salvaged ships, at lease somewhat comparable to their value on the market. I do not care if that means significantly toning down the success rates for getting a ship from salvage to keep them from being to lucrative for the player. Currently it costs me 10s of thousands for bigger ships with D mods on them, but I only get a few thousand for that same ship even after I repair it. I am pretty sure that there are ships that are a net loss once you factor in the cost to bring them home. that should really not be the case, and ships should not lose most of their value simply because the player owned them at some point.

On a similar note, getting a working ship from salvage should feel like a real windfall, not like an alternative form of ship market (especially in player colonized systems, where there can be dozens of derelicts floating around for the player to harvest at any given time). Most of the time they should just give you the salvaged materials, not a ship.

Of course the whole salvage mechanic needs a rework anyway, so you can just pile this feedback onto that.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2019, 09:15:06 AM »

The game is designed so that it's not profitable to sell ships, that's very intentional. Presumably the middle man takes a big share for himself so the seller gets very little. That's how used cars work to some extent too: the dealership is going to give you much less than market value for your used car so they can sell it at market value and make a profit.

The gameplay reason is that the dev does not want the player farming easy AI fleets and selling the recovered ships as an effective way to make money, other wise the player would be incentivized to grind easy battles with little risk to make cash. Grinding is not fun (at least most people agree on that), so it is not incentivized.

You should scrap any ship you don't actually want in your fleet, you will almost certainly loose money trying to bring them home.

I do agree though that the salvaging mechanics could use a balance pass, but I think the gameplay reasons for why things are the way they are currently are fairly solid.
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Brightness

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2019, 12:25:54 PM »

This sounds cool, actually. Just like, a 1% chance.
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Vind

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Re: Scuttling a ship has a chance to drop a blueprint for it
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2019, 02:31:01 AM »

Can you receive TV blueprint then you hammer it to pieces? Scuttling is a destruction. Costly reverse engineering with laboratory and years of research work must not be swapped for 1% magic chance.
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