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[axet]

Hello!

I endup having 2.5M income from countless colonies and end game looks too simple. The best ship in the game is Paragon, I have fleet of them and it is not fun to play, no one can outstand just my first 3 paragons I deploy (180 dp points) and I lose no battle against pirates, or Remnant fleets.

If you read the description it's saying: "The pinnacle of the Domain's battleship designs, though perhaps less the result of military necessity and more of the ambitions of certain senior strategic staff of the Domain Navy with considerable backing from the Tri-Tachyon corporation, among other major contractors." Which is completely untrue. It is the best ship in the game, deployment 3 of them in a battle makes you always win.

I suggest to match a description and make it peace of luxury ship, let's make it have the best weapons, best look, higheght price to build, but useless in a battle. Let's make it 150 dp to deploy.

[lollypopalopicus]

I would disagree.
Paragons are indeed very powerful, but with maintenance cost, I usually only have about 4 or 5 paragons in my fleet. If you are looking through deep space, and come across a massive pirate fleet, even if you wipe out their entire fleet, even losing one paragon is crippling to your overall fleets power.

Also, when you have 2.5 million income, and not really anything else to do, you could try defeating other factions, where the major systems have large numbers of fleets that would make the paragons necessary.

[furl]

Yes it is the best ship. Try IBB missions though - you'll be challenged IMO there's no need to nerf Paragon, we just need harder missions

[goduranus]

I would say it is very good but maybe not the best ship. Paragon’s defense is best in stock game, but the best firepower goes to the Astral imo.

[Vind]

Good but overpriced. Excellent thing about it - AI can survive in it and this alone maybe worth 60 points. But ill take 3 onslaughts vs 2 paragons any day.

[Wyvern]

What paragon variant are you using?  I have found that some remnant battleships are able to kill paragons.  (But only a rare few - basically they need to roll a perfect set of matching strike weapons and officer skills.)

I'll also note that pirates aren't a particularly strong threat compared to other factions (unless you've been selling them blueprints), and Remnants play to the Paragon's strengths - they can't retreat, which means that the Paragon's low speed is a non-factor in ways it wouldn't be against other factions.

[Sinosauropteryx]

If you read the description it's saying: "The pinnacle of the Domain's battleship designs, though perhaps less the result of military necessity and more of the ambitions of certain senior strategic staff of the Domain Navy with considerable backing from the Tri-Tachyon corporation, among other major contractors." Which is completely untrue. It is the best ship in the game, deployment 3 of them in a battle makes you always win.

The statement can still be true. Perhaps they were overkill for the types of battles being fought at the time, so they weren't militarily necessary.

[Retry]

I would disagree.
Paragons are indeed very powerful, but with maintenance cost, I usually only have about 4 or 5 paragons in my fleet.

You have only 300 deployments-worth of Paragons lying around in your hangers?

[Agile]

I find 2 paragons is all you really need; anything more is actually a waste.

You get 2, MAYBE 3 paragons (if your hunting remnants), and then use nothing but carriers (Eos, Vortex, or Drovers) that have a follow command on the Paragons and you are basically game, set, and match. Fighters take care of faster targets (and battleships who constantly *** out instead of fighting the Paragon, which forces them to either push in and face tank the Paragon in a desperate bid to take out the carriers, or die a death of a thousand cuts ((fighter spam)) without doing anything).

But yeah, end game is suffering. I usually just start a new game because the best content is in low to mid game, when everything is a threat and you could fleet wipe because you entered the wrong neighborhood. When your fleet is big enough to auto command kill everything but death fleets, there really isn't much to do.

[TruKave]

remember kids: drovers exist, and they are always stronger

[lollypopalopicus]

I would disagree.
Paragons are indeed very powerful, but with maintenance cost, I usually only have about 4 or 5 paragons in my fleet.

You have only 300 deployments-worth of Paragons lying around in your hangers?

Oh, you misunderstand me. I don't mean I own only 4 or 5 paragons total, including storage. 4 or 5 paragons are what I keep in my active fleet that I fly from system to system with.

[Buff Skeleton]

I would disagree.
Paragons are indeed very powerful, but with maintenance cost, I usually only have about 4 or 5 paragons in my fleet.

You have only 300 deployments-worth of Paragons lying around in your hangers?

Oh, you misunderstand me. I don't mean I own only 4 or 5 paragons total, including storage. 4 or 5 paragons are what I keep in my active fleet that I fly from system to system with.

lol, I think what he was getting at is that having more than one or two is absurd overkill in most situations, especially since you can't usually deploy more than two of them at once anyway.

Paragons are definitely good, but far from overpowered, and there's nothing wrong with their description, either. They're expensive to manufacture/buy, expensive to maintain, and it's not easy to get ahold of them either. Blueprints are rare, and the ships you can actually buy are extremely expensive and most likely will require a Tri-Tachyon commission to boot. So in most games, they're definitely a jewel that takes some work to unearth.

I actually managed to get ahold of two Paragon blueprints in my current game, so I used one for myself and then sold the other to pirates. Now I'm facing them in pirate armadas, which is absolutely hilarious. I highly recommend selling extraneous high-tech blueprints to them for additional challenge.

[Plantissue]

Paragons are absolutely cost effective, both in deployment cost and maintenance cost. Their maintenance cost is actually rather low for the combat power they provide. Since they can replace everything but frigates for pursuits, you don't really need any other ship for combat. The main problem with Paragons is that they are slow and boring.

[intrinsic_parity]

There are many different fleets that can easily destroy any enemy in the game. The metrics for comparing them are supplies spent to deploy and time taken to kill (and also armor/hull damage, but most good fleets won't take any). Paragon spam doesn't perform particularly well in either of those metrics, they cost a ton of supplies to maintain and deploy, and they take forever to do stuff because they are so slow. Spamming SO ships will kill things a lot faster (and probably for less supplies), abusing the astral can let you spend a lot less supplies (this requires tanks as well but apogees are much more supply efficient for tanking than paragons), and drover spam kills everything (although I'm not sure how supply efficient it is). There are many ways to optimize fleets so that you get better performance than paragon spam. One or two help a lot against stations and remnants because they are the strongest tank in the game, but you can do a lot better than spamming them.

[Megas]

I find that AI does not do much better with Paragon than with Onslaught or Conquest.  AI is prone to high flux, whether it is lances, plasma cannons, or pulse laser spam; and once flux reaches max, it goes down as quickly as the other two battleships.  It just takes a bit longer than Onslaught/Conquest to get to max flux.  Under AI control, I consider Paragon worth 50 DP.  The player can do really nasty things with Paragon and with optimal use, it may be worth 60 DP.