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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: A plot to overthrow the late game.  (Read 4986 times)

Wyvern

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Re: A plot to overthrow the late game.
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 11:11:25 AM »

Right, yeah - I've been thinking about that a fair bit. What I have in mind is having this sort of pressure, and designing/balancing around it (since it's basically impossible to balance without it - if the player has infinite opportunity to prepare, just about anything short of an absolutely top-tier challenge can be trivialized), but also having this pressure be an option you can select - or not - during Sector creation. It feels like something where some people will be into it, and some people will really dislike it no matter what, and, really, a more "chill" game where you just kind of putz around and do things at your own pace seems like something that oughtn't be disallowed.
I'd like to put in a request for an intermediate mode, too - something where the pressure / endgame threat is a thing the player can deliberately trigger, or put off triggering.  In general, I do like to just putz around, doing things at my own pace, experimenting with different ships and layouts and such.  However, I'd also like the option to essentially tell the game, "Okay, I think I'm ready - bring it on!" and see where that goes.

This could be done fairly easily via missions - have something like the AI-core-cache or the Red Planet, but with a big blinking red warning label "Investigating this thing will stir up a hornet's nest, don't do it until you're sure you're ready for that."
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alex

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Re: A plot to overthrow the late game.
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 11:24:42 AM »

I'd like to put in a request for an intermediate mode, too - something where the pressure / endgame threat is a thing the player can deliberately trigger, or put off triggering.  In general, I do like to just putz around, doing things at my own pace, experimenting with different ships and layouts and such.  However, I'd also like the option to essentially tell the game, "Okay, I think I'm ready - bring it on!" and see where that goes.

This could be done fairly easily via missions - have something like the AI-core-cache or the Red Planet, but with a big blinking red warning label "Investigating this thing will stir up a hornet's nest, don't do it until you're sure you're ready for that."

That's pretty much exactly what I have in mind for the "no pressure" mode!
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SCC

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Re: A plot to overthrow the late game.
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 12:37:00 PM »

I just lost my entire lengthy post due to log-in time out and I don't have much time left, so I'll be shorter than I wanted.
Alex can solve the sandbox problem by forcing the player into fighters, making him race against time or by gating the progression. I would greatly appreciate the former, by having some bounties on the player-like system, where successful traders or scavengers would face pirates gunning specifically for them, since they are known for making money. It's harder to get this working for bounty hunters, but this would be solved by having bounties posted on actual faction members (preventing you from gaining too much rep with that faction). Timer is probably what Alex is going to do, with an escalating threat that the player has to keep up with, or else something will suffer. Gating the progression is another thing I'd like, with relations with certain factions (or your own colonies getting developed) serving as the gates, but this won't work with relations meaning so little currently (having access to ships you can already get elsewhere, even if at worse odds) and being so easy to gain. I know that Alex will make certain skills, like transverse jump, available through quests as well, so there's that, but I don't know if it will go any further than that.

Plantissue

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Re: A plot to overthrow the late game.
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 02:00:26 PM »

An "easy" way is just that when you explore distant worlds, you naturally meet storyline triggers which need to be investigated and when investigated will reward you. It only escalates when you choose to escalate, but the pieces are all in place when you are ready to avoid much retreading. But I am sure like much else a lot of thought would had gotten into whatever the storyline progression model will be.
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33k7

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Re: A plot to overthrow the late game.
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 03:10:32 PM »

got 2 questions for end game

can you continue playing even after the end game is over or is it more like other games where you hit the credits after you beat the final boss?

will I be able to build a Galactic Empire basically can I conquer the entire galaxy with possibly hundreds of planets under my control like i have now or are you eventually going to put a cap on the number of colonies you can have?
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FooF

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Re: A plot to overthrow the late game.
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 05:43:15 PM »

I've known for some time now that Starsector will never be a 4x but I would like to see the sector "react" to various stimuli.

For example, in my current game, I have a 7-planet empire across 4 systems that are absolutely dominating the markets (and the biggest planet is only size 6). I've warded off my fair share of expeditions and raids but considering the near-monopoly I'm beginning to have over most of the major commodities, I would imagine my upstart empire threatening the status quo in the Core Worlds would cause more...concern...for the major factions. To have a declaration of war declared against me by one (or all!) of the factions, for economic reasons, would seem par for the course in a cut-throat, decaying, sector.

But it's not just the giant fleets of doom that need to be factored in, it's the materiel cost for launching such an attack. If a major faction declares war and sends war fleets, there ought to be a window of opportunity to strike when they're vulnerable or counter-attack with permanent ramifications or, at the very least, some sort of "cost" that doesn't just go away as soon as the simulation spawns a new defense fleet (As an aside, that is possibly the most disheartening part of the game currently: I wipe out a giant fleet and lick my wounds only to see an equally large fleet spawn over my target at no cost to them). Again, these are triggered events rather than some dynamic AI decision but perhaps there is some granularity when it comes to what exactly triggers the event so it can't be entirely gamed.

The more of these triggering events that cause progression toward some goal (I really like the term "pressure" to describe the impetus to drive the player forward) and the more of these events that permanently shape the Sector, the more "alive" it will feel without it actually being dynamic. Or to put it another way, if such events were both qualitatively and quantitatively sufficient, some trivial/small-scale dynamism would be enough to complete the illusion.

I hope that's the direction the game will ultimately shape into but of course, I'm not putting all the hard work into it!



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Harmful Mechanic

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Re: A plot to overthrow the late game.
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2019, 07:27:58 PM »

ITT, many people have way too little faith in a game that takes so many design cues from Star Control 2.

(I'm looking forward to story content like whoa.)
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