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Author Topic: Eagle-Class Thoughts  (Read 10981 times)

Jonlissla

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2012, 07:49:32 AM »

It's pretty niche if it can only efficiently target capital ships with its weapons and get soloed by AI controlled lasher. 

He did write that it's not designed to take on smaller, more agile ships. So I'd say yes, it does have a niche role.

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And requiring "assload of fighters and frigates and destroyers" make it extremely niche because guess what, assload of fighters will win you the battle by themselves.

The way I see it the Eagle requires another ship in order to successfully fulfill his role in combat, which is to combat larger vessels.

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That makes the eagle nothing but a leech that require other ships' success to ride on.

Having a Talon occupying an enemy cruiser so the Eagle can move into range and do its work doesn't sound much of a leech to me. Battles can vary quite a lot.
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Nanostrike

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2012, 07:55:00 AM »

It's a decent ship at doing what it does: head-on attacks against big, slow targets.  But when you have any fast ships in the mix, they'll just circle strafe it and send missiles up it's tailpipe every time.
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icepick37

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2012, 08:46:19 AM »

It doesn't take a ridiculous amount of support to field an eagle. One good support frigate or destroyer will do. And if you let a smaller faster ship flank you when it's the only enemy around the problem is you. Not the ship.
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Jonlissla

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2012, 08:53:00 AM »

And if you let a smaller faster ship flank you when it's the only enemy around the problem is you. Not the ship.

Except it is the ship in this case. Player skill can only do so much when the ship you're piloting has a limited speed and manueverability.
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icepick37

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2012, 09:29:56 AM »

Welp. You are welcome to your opinion. But a single frigate has never taken me out in an eagle. Ever.
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harrumph

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2012, 10:00:55 AM »

The Eagle is kind of like a mini-Onslaught, right down to the Star Destroyer-y wedge shape. Similar bow-mounted hardpoints, centrally-mounted turrets, PD turrets all around. Trouble is, the Eagle has a totally anemic complement of missiles, it can't take hits on its hull armor the way the Onslaught can, and it generally can't out-punch the ships that are slow enough to get stuck in its sights (Ventures and Astrals, obviously, being exceptions). It's a decent support cruiser, sure, but I actually think the Falcon is better.

I used to think of the Falcon as the poor-man's Eagle, but since the patch I've come around. Try outfitting a Falcon with hypervelocity drivers and giving it an integrated targeting unit—even though it's got speed and an FP cost more like a destroyer, the Falcon gets the cruiser-level 35% range boost, which pushes the hypervelocity drivers' range out to 1350. Cap ships, even with the ITU, can only extend their usual main guns out to 1200, and none of them are as fast as a Falcon, so it can keep up a steady fire from a safe distance. It's a great support ship for a fleet mainly built around fighters or frigates and fast destroyers. Maybe you could actually do the same with an Eagle—augmented engines, leave the medium energy mounts empty (or just put more small PD in them)?
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Thaago

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2012, 10:06:51 AM »

I think this highlights the difference between 'fleet' ships and 'solo' ships. The frigates (minus brawler) and fast destroyers and the Aurora are solo ships - maneuverable enough to protect their own flanks and survive against agile threats. Generally this is compensated with lower heavy firepower (debatable for the Aurora, but it does cost 17). Then there are ships that are only effective as part of a fleet where they have escorts to protect their flanks - the Eagle, Onslaught, and to a lesser extent Enforcer are good examples. They generally have higher firepower to compensate.

I find the Eagle to be very effective if it has an escort - I feel the same way about the Enforcer. I love the enforcer very much actually - one of my favorite ships. Depending on the fleet I consider it better than the Medusa, but the AI general doesn't support it properly so we rarely fight against it at its best.

I do feel that the Eagle shouldn't be packing those medium energy mounts though... I know it makes thematic sense but it just doesn't have the flux capacity to mount heavy blasters or really even pulse lasers. There are just so many more options for low-medium flux medium ballistic (*coughflakcough*) then their are for energy...
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Jonlissla

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2012, 11:00:25 AM »

Welp. You are welcome to your opinion. But a single frigate has never taken me out in an eagle. Ever.

Neither have I. The problem arises when the AI takes control, and if the Eagle is only worth using as a player ship then it might need some tweaking.

Then again, the full game has not yet been released, and there will undoubtely be some changes and improvements to the AI in the future.
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cp252

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2012, 01:36:44 PM »

AI-flown Eagles... they do nothing.  :-\ Maybe I'm bad at loadout and positioning, but I'd prefer destroyer and Lasher spam.
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Alrenous

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Re: Eagle-Class Thoughts
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2012, 07:33:27 PM »

So... I felt like selling all my ships and buying a solo Eagle, so I did. Small fleets of 3-4 Lashers, Hounds, and fighters would intentionally target me.
I felt like I was playing an MMO and using taunt, because they'd all die. I guess I need to try doing it again but letting the AI control it and see if they can do it too. I did have to outfit the Eagle specifically to deal with smaller ships, but its hardly impossible.

The key is to overload the frigate so you have time to turn and blast them with the forward guns. Though often they'd die simply from the energy turrets.

Triple graviton with ITU for bonus range seemed best. Lashers can't kill your engines if they're overloading and taking so much grav beam it is stripping their armour off. Antimatter blasters are also good for guaranteeing an overload if they get in range, though relying so heavily on the forward guns for the kill shot makes them die slower. Grav beams are also awesome for shooting down fighters, doubly so with the ITU.

I use small ballistics because I'm using my OP for mods and because light guns are more efficient. At first I didn't even use extended shields. It helps a lot but isn't necessary.

If you want your PD to actually kill missiles, use PD lasers with bonus range, not LR lasers. I wasn't able to get better performance out of anything else. They also contribute best to shooting down fighters and frigates.

Despite all this, to effectively compete with the Aurora, I suspect the Eagle needs more armour. Taking the shields down is essentially not an option, which means it's a race between killing my target and running out of hard flux capacity. Piranha and Broadswords are serious trouble to my loadout, especially considering crew death and repair time.
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