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Author Topic: Venture, why?  (Read 20136 times)

Igncom1

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2019, 02:06:41 AM »

To be fair the Apogee doesn't have salvaging, but you can just as easily just get some shepherds for that anyway. Assuming you find a decent energy weapon for her to use, otherwise you aren't as better equipped then the venture anyway.

Is the Apogee a civilian ship? I don't recall it having the civilian hull mod?

I'd love to see a buffed up venture, possibly with more built in minding drone wings to make it a drone carrier! If I could mod I'd love to make a civilian-war fleet with overhauled designs like the TEC from sins of a solar empire, or the mon calamari from starwars.
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goduranus

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2019, 02:23:28 AM »

Maybe some ships are just suppose to suck. The Pirate Wolf is downright inferior, but you can find it almost everywhere. Yeah it only takes 5 minutes of looking around to find a proper Wolf, but it takes less than one minute to find a pirate one.

Same for the Venture, it takes about 60 minutes to find a decent Apogee, but 10 minutes to find a decent Venture, so if you aren’t too picky you can make do with Venture, and I think that’s what Venture is for.

Tackywheat1

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2019, 10:27:29 AM »

To be fair the Apogee doesn't have salvaging, but you can just as easily just get some shepherds for that anyway. Assuming you find a decent energy weapon for her to use, otherwise you aren't as better equipped then the venture anyway.

Is the Apogee a civilian ship? I don't recall it having the civilian hull mod?

I'd love to see a buffed up venture, possibly with more built in minding drone wings to make it a drone carrier! If I could mod I'd love to make a civilian-war fleet with overhauled designs like the TEC from sins of a solar empire, or the mon calamari from starwars.
Apogee is not a civilian ship
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Eji1700

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2019, 10:49:51 AM »

It's a pretty good ship for a non military.  Ship prices/availability really could use a tweak, but the venture is fine.

The "stock" loadout when you test a build is what I usually practice against for larger ships because it shows off how annoying it can be.  It's got great anti missile/fighter options, and seriously dangerous missile pressure.  It's not really meant to flux someone out (outside of sabots) but instead to sit there and hold the line while other ships do that.  Once they're fluxed, double harpoon pods can kill most non cap hulls.

Is it designed to be in your end game fleet without some serious love?  No, but at any point before money becomes a free resources it's great.
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Igncom1

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2019, 11:11:19 AM »

To be fair the Apogee doesn't have salvaging, but you can just as easily just get some shepherds for that anyway. Assuming you find a decent energy weapon for her to use, otherwise you aren't as better equipped then the venture anyway.

Is the Apogee a civilian ship? I don't recall it having the civilian hull mod?

I'd love to see a buffed up venture, possibly with more built in minding drone wings to make it a drone carrier! If I could mod I'd love to make a civilian-war fleet with overhauled designs like the TEC from sins of a solar empire, or the mon calamari from starwars.
Apogee is not a civilian ship

Then why are we comparing a military ship to a civilian ship? I know they are both exploration craft, but that seems a little stacked.
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Tackywheat1

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2019, 11:12:35 AM »

Because they fulfill similar roles (except Apogee is much better)
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Igncom1

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2019, 11:13:41 AM »

I'd be surprised if a military ship was worse then a civilian ship at fighting, within the same weight class that is.
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Locklave

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2019, 11:15:17 AM »

Maybe some ships are just suppose to suck. The Pirate Wolf is downright inferior, but you can find it almost everywhere. Yeah it only takes 5 minutes of looking around to find a proper Wolf, but it takes less than one minute to find a pirate one.

Same for the Venture, it takes about 60 minutes to find a decent Apogee, but 10 minutes to find a decent Venture, so if you aren’t too picky you can make do with Venture, and I think that’s what Venture is for.

But Venture isn't like a weaker Apogee. A Pirate Wolf is worse then a normal wolf but it's still a good ship, but Venture is junky.

Maybe it just exists to be space garbage?

edit:

Just because it has survey equipment doesn't mean it fills the same role. Apogee is nothing like the Venture aside from that. Venture is like a Big drone tender minus the better scav bonus and speed, not very much like the drone tender even...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 11:19:11 AM by Locklave »
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Sarissofoi

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2019, 02:18:27 PM »

Venture would be great for exploration and salvaging fleets if it have a Salvaging Gantry. I wonder why it don't have it in first place?

Goumindong

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2019, 03:14:20 PM »

Maybe some ships are just suppose to suck. The Pirate Wolf is downright inferior, but you can find it almost everywhere. Yeah it only takes 5 minutes of looking around to find a proper Wolf, but it takes less than one minute to find a pirate one.

Same for the Venture, it takes about 60 minutes to find a decent Apogee, but 10 minutes to find a decent Venture, so if you aren’t too picky you can make do with Venture, and I think that’s what Venture is for.

But Venture isn't like a weaker Apogee. A Pirate Wolf is worse then a normal wolf but it's still a good ship, but Venture is junky.

Maybe it just exists to be space garbage?

But a venture is not junky. It is indeed a very good anvil that you can entirely not care if it dies. Not only is it a good anvil but its weapon systems are strong and uncommon for anvils. Most anvils do not have multiple medium launcher slots. Certainly not at 15 DP. The Dominator does, but it costs 25.

Adjusted base Flux Dissipation(Base dissipation - shield upkeep cost): Common Cruisers. - OP efficiency (OP divided by DP rounded to nearest tenth) - adjusted base flux divided by DP

Venture: 180 - 7.3 - 12
Falcon: 210 - 8.3 - 14
Eagle: 315 - 7.0 - 14.31
Apogee: 280-7.8 - 15.55
Dominator: 225 - 7.6 - 9

As we can see the Venture is not great. But its also not *** either. Its just barely below the Falcon and Eagle in efficiency and around the same space as the dominator.  Its not so far off the Apogee that the Apogee becomes clearly a superior option. If you have stabilized shields and hardened shields the Apogee probably does but that is a LOT of OP you're eating into tank. You won't have much left to fits its slots. The Dominator has even less flux per DP than the Venture and fewer medium missile slots and roughly the same OP per DP.

The only thing you really need a venture to do is to sit in one spot, not die, and have harpoons fit so that you can punish things when they flux out. Its really good at all of that! Its got the best quantity of missile slots per deployment point for any of the front line cruisers.

Sure you will probably drop it by the time you can field a "proper" tank and a gryphon behind it and you're all skilled up with specialist captains. But the Venture is not bad in the slightest
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Plantissue

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2019, 03:46:20 PM »

There is no anvil in this game. There is no infantry moral system. You will care for any ship that dies if you are before the point where you don't need to care about money.

Anyways, we are comparing Apogee with Venture becuase the question was why would you consider buying a Venture, not why the Venture exists. They are both the same burn speed (after militarised ship system) and in the same hull type. Apogee does exactly the same thing as Venture as a combat ship but is better logistically and combat-wise.

The advantages of the Venture usually has nothing to do with buying it, but rather that is is usually "free" to find as pirate salvage and is rather common to find, as opposed to the Apogee which seems rather rare. And that's fine as a role of the ship in the game.
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Tackywheat1

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2019, 04:25:54 PM »

Apogee is NOT a civilian ship
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Locklave

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2019, 06:08:58 PM »

All I can tell from this thread is that the Venture isn't worth the deployment cost and is a sub par fodder.

Even if you could get it for free it isn't able to pull it's weight in combat after a few volleys of missiles at which point it's waiting to die. I would never keep something as costly as a cruiser to use as fodder. Hound/Cerberus these are good fodder you can afford to lose. Treating a cruiser like this is insane.

Apogee is not "exactly the same thing as the Venture as a combat ship but is better logistically and combat wise." You could say that about Onslaught vs Atlas Mk II. It's a terrible comparison.

Drone tender is the closest thing to Venture in what it does and how it performs in combat. Rarely kills anything and takes up the enemies time, the only difference seems to be that the Drone tender has more survival because it can avoid stuff.

Why the Venture exists is a very good question at this point. It should be justified in Lore or mechanics in some way. Why would anyone build it over other ships?

edit:

If it could replace a Salvage ship and had improved Scanners for free it might be worth the cost. But that's not gonna happen.

edit 2:

Point of thought, the Drone tender isn't something you'd question taking for free if you had space. It also isn't something you'd question why it was built in the first place, if the game was way smaller scale players would buy them more commonly. I can imagine starting off npc scavs would love them.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 06:22:26 PM by Locklave »
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Agile

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2019, 07:56:32 PM »

The Venture is actually a civillian ship. You need to waste DP on Militarized Subsystems or else you get ganked by pirate patrols due to 7 burn (without Military systems) and high sensor profile.

Plus without it you get huge costs due to it being a civillian hull.
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Serenitis

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Re: Venture, why?
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2019, 01:59:52 AM »

Why the Venture exists is a very good question at this point. It should be justified in Lore or mechanics in some way.
It is. It exists as a fallback option for any faction without access to heavy industry, so they have at least one ship capable of being an anchor in thier fleets.
Venture is supposed to be the poverty option for cruisers, in the same way Buffalo II is for destroyers, and Condor is for carriers. And the same way that all of them are fodder for the player to beat on in the early game.

As to why you'd want to build it over other ships, you probably wouldn't unless it was the only thing of it's size you had access to. Eg; running a heavy industry without any extra blueprints, something that happens only if you build a colony right at the start of the game, and do zero exploring.

The Venture is actually a civillian ship. You need to waste DP on Militarized Subsystems or else you get ganked by pirate patrols due to 7 burn (without Military systems) and high sensor profile.

Plus without it you get huge costs due to it being a civillian hull.
You can run from almost anything with burn 7 ships. I regularly build fleets around Colossi because they're the biggest thing capable of burn 7 without having to spend dock slots (which I want for other things), and have had no issues running when needed.
Burn 7 is not an issue for the Venture, unless you're obsessing about the highest possible speeds. In which case most cruisers will not be suitable for you either. This is quite an unfair standard to hold against one ship.

CivGrade doesn't increase costs in any way. Unless you're counting the increase from the military conversion, which again is unfair as it's not a requirement.
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