Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hunterbirk]

Asskissing preamble: I absolutely love this mod, I have a hard time thinking about this game without immediately thinking of this mod. I've done modifications to each of the ships in this mod to tailor my preferences (such as supply use and fuel/cargo capacity), but other than that this floors me on how it stands out.

Question/problem: I've learned how to modify the stats of each ship but not how to fix weapon mounts. One of the medium ballistic mounts on the Nagato is at the wrong angle (as far as I can tell); Specifically, the one behind the very front heavy Mjolnir diagonal to it's right. The other ballistic mount on the left side is a 180-degree arc facing northwest with respect to the ship, however, the one on the right is a 180-degree arc facing dead north rather than northeast.

This is a very minor issue because the Nagato has a spectacular range and coverage otherwise but this one mount is driving me crazy and I don't know how to fix the mount's symmetry (damn it OCD). If you can let me know how to fix the angle of the mount I'd greatly appreciate it.

its still not fixed? *** i must have forgot to save it. i will upload corrected version today.

edit:you sure have version 0.4? im looking at the ship data and cant find any medium with 0 degree medium slot. anyway, if you are using previous version, you can download "ship and weapons editor" start it, go to file>load mod>select mod folder of "missing ships", that will load mod path to the editor. then go to file>load data>data>hulls>missp_nagato.ship. after that, you open weapon slot interface by pressing "w", find the misaligned slot, correct it and then save the ship by pressing "v". or, if you dont feel like doing all that, navigate to the mod folder, sind "missp_nagato.ship" open it in some text editor-i use notepad++, find "WS0038" and "WS0039", one of them will not have 80 or -80 degrees, so make it 80 or -80, depending on what is wrong and save the file. look on other medium ballistic slots above it for reference, each slot should be pair slot.

Thank you very much. I was using the previous version and did not see in the changelog that the Nagato had its weapon mount fixed, though frankly, I should have checked. It was the WS0039 turret that was at 0.

[NephilimNexus]

Three ship types that I believe this game needs:

1) More dedicated missile ships.  In vanilla you've got the Griffon and... that's it.  Seriously.  Yes, you can kitbash other hulls into missile carriers, but that is the only one made from the ground-up to be a missile fighter.  And it only comes in one size.  How about hit and run missile frigates, or massive a massive Kirov-like missile battleship?  Naturally should come with built-in missile forges for anyone not using Archeaon Order.  My inner Caldari weeps at this lack of representation.

2) Pursuit ships.  Yes, we have fast ships, but what I mean here is something larger than a gnat frigate that trades some of its firepower for speed.  Like the old WW2 convoy raiders, "it can outgun anything it can't outrun and outrun anything it can't outgun."  So something along the cruiser or battlecruiser scale, but with much better speed at the expense of very weak armor or poor flux management.  In other words, the opposite of 14th Battlegroun philosophy.  Yes, the Luddic Path sort of does this but those are really just reskin/respecs of other ships.  I mean something truly new, and built with a purpose rather than a repurpose.

3) Pirate ships that actually reflect piracy and not just red painted warships.  By this I mean, similar to the above, ships that trade armor and staying power (i.e. rapid CR decay) for speed and smaller signature profiles by default.  Pirate ships should be designed around the idea of closing fast, undetected until it is too late, and then getting out again before the hammer falls or reinforcements arrive.  Pirate raiders should have three main traits: Fast and  maneuverable, fast CR decay rate in combat but lower overall supply cost (and cheap to repair), weak armor with most weapons forward facing (they're not looking to get into a slug-match, just hitting them hard and fast), smaller than average signatures (built-in engine shielding should be standard on many of them) and built-in salvage gantries with most of their freighter-type ships (or maybe even ground support packages in those that don't, for planet raiding - but always one or the other).

[scarface]

Three ship types that I believe this game needs:

1) More dedicated missile ships.  In vanilla you've got the Griffon and... that's it.  Seriously.  Yes, you can kitbash other hulls into missile carriers, but that is the only one made from the ground-up to be a missile fighter.  And it only comes in one size.  How about hit and run missile frigates, or massive a massive Kirov-like missile battleship?  Naturally should come with built-in missile forges for anyone not using Archeaon Order.  My inner Caldari weeps at this lack of representation.

2) Pursuit ships.  Yes, we have fast ships, but what I mean here is something larger than a gnat frigate that trades some of its firepower for speed.  Like the old WW2 convoy raiders, "it can outgun anything it can't outrun and outrun anything it can't outgun."  So something along the cruiser or battlecruiser scale, but with much better speed at the expense of very weak armor or poor flux management.  In other words, the opposite of 14th Battlegroun philosophy.  Yes, the Luddic Path sort of does this but those are really just reskin/respecs of other ships.  I mean something truly new, and built with a purpose rather than a repurpose.

3) Pirate ships that actually reflect piracy and not just red painted warships.  By this I mean, similar to the above, ships that trade armor and staying power (i.e. rapid CR decay) for speed and smaller signature profiles by default.  Pirate ships should be designed around the idea of closing fast, undetected until it is too late, and then getting out again before the hammer falls or reinforcements arrive.  Pirate raiders should have three main traits: Fast and  maneuverable, fast CR decay rate in combat but lower overall supply cost (and cheap to repair), weak armor with most weapons forward facing (they're not looking to get into a slug-match, just hitting them hard and fast), smaller than average signatures (built-in engine shielding should be standard on many of them) and built-in salvage gantries with most of their freighter-type ships (or maybe even ground support packages in those that don't, for planet raiding - but always one or the other).

Missile ships sound like a good idea. i will see if i can come up with something.

pursuit ships are also a good idea. but there are already some in the game-falcon for example, and phase ships are good chasers too. but ligh weight conquest might not be the worst idea i think.

pirate ships would require complete rebalance for this. and im very much trying to stay in balance with the game. so i wont be focusing on this at any point. best would be if you would make your own mod and release it, im sure a lot of people would like it.

[NephilimNexus]

I could probably tweaks stats on some pirate ships, but I lack the photoshop skills to do all new textures.  I'll see what I can do, though...

[StarScum]

i really like these, will you add a high-tech line?

[lolghurt]

The Pather suffix is (LP), not (Path), which makes the Pather reskins in this mod stick out like a sore thumb.

[PainProjection]

0.3.4.-08.11.2019-Made sure so that AI wont be able to use super ships.

If i sell for example Nagato blueprint to any blackmarket they still will not appear in pirate fleets? Am i get this right? Because it also wouldn't appear in my own faction fleets when i simply learn it, no matter how i tweak my doctrine.

[scarface]

0.3.4.-08.11.2019-Made sure so that AI wont be able to use super ships.

If i sell for example Nagato blueprint to any blackmarket they still will not appear in pirate fleets? Am i get this right? Because it also wouldn't appear in my own faction fleets when i simply learn it, no matter how i tweak my doctrine.

yup. its to prevent players from salvaging them from AI fleets. but i could tweak it so it wont be salvagable, i will see how well that goes. AI has issues with using these ships correctly.

[PainProjection]

Ok then got it, but i immidiatly regret my decision after i saw 3 hostile hegemony fleets with 7+ onslaught in each and some more lesser capital ships. Thanks to "Second Wave Options" mod, i use it in this run so i guess for me personally there is no need to do such things like selling nagato blueprint to pirates to make game harder, it is already hard as my ***, oh... invasion by hegemony... 51 day left, can't avert. Well... i have to go!

P.S. but it may be still a usefull option what can be disabled by default, but some peoples may tweak it in .ini file

[scarface]

Ok then got it, but i immidiatly regret my decision after i saw 3 hostile hegemony fleets with 7+ onslaught in each and some more lesser capital ships. Thanks to "Second Wave Options" mod, i use it in this run so i guess for me personally there is no need to do such things like selling nagato blueprint to pirates to make game harder, it is already hard as my ***, oh... invasion by hegemony... 51 day left, can't avert. Well... i have to go!

P.S. but it may be still a usefull option what can be disabled by default, but some peoples may tweak it in .ini file

if you want to use the nagato and other ships or want factions to use them, just modify uhhh. i think... in world/factions/default?roles and other files and set priority for nagato. i think i set 0 priority for everything to make extra sure that AI cant use it. also, dont leave nagato or ragnarok in AI hands without help. for nagato, it cant focus its firepower and ragnarok is just overgrown prometheus II, so it doesnt really have that much punch to it.

[PainProjection]

Ok then got it, but i immidiatly regret my decision after i saw 3 hostile hegemony fleets with 7+ onslaught in each and some more lesser capital ships. Thanks to "Second Wave Options" mod, i use it in this run so i guess for me personally there is no need to do such things like selling nagato blueprint to pirates to make game harder, it is already hard as my ***, oh... invasion by hegemony... 51 day left, can't avert. Well... i have to go!

P.S. but it may be still a usefull option what can be disabled by default, but some peoples may tweak it in .ini file

if you want to use the nagato and other ships or want factions to use them, just modify uhhh. i think... in world/factions/default?roles and other files and set priority for nagato. i think i set 0 priority for everything to make extra sure that AI cant use it. also, dont leave nagato or ragnarok in AI hands without help. for nagato, it cant focus its firepower and ragnarok is just overgrown prometheus II, so it doesnt really have that much punch to it.

I didn't touch nagato yet, but at least tried to control ragnarok (missions - benchmark - then in main menu new option appear what contains every ship in game even hidden one) and i can say what as for the majority of ships, no matter vanilla or modded it have same problem - bad loadout, for most ships i can at least double effectiveness of any of them if spend 0.5-2 hours on each including performance in AI hands (but for guaranteed result i need some weapons from other mods, for example ricochet pellet gun from ED shipyard - *** PD for 1 OD, works well if spammed), i did it with ragnarok, it performs pretty good after my upgrades. Long story short - he have typical problem of not having enough flux and powergreedy loadout, also, for some reason all his weapons bound in 1 group.

"Staple" is *** btw, i wasted half of day on it and didn't succeed, don't know what to expect from nagato, but i already can clearly see what it require stabilised shields and frontshield conversion, cause 1800 flux/sec is rediculous ammount.

P.S. Can send you some .variants if you want

[scarface]

I didn't touch nagato yet, but at least tried to control ragnarok (missions - benchmark - then in main menu new option appear what contains every ship in game even hidden one) and i can say what as for the majority of ships, no matter vanilla or modded it have same problem - bad loadout, for most ships i can at least double effectiveness of any of them if spend 0.5-2 hours on each including performance in AI hands (but for guaranteed result i need some weapons from other mods, for example ricochet pellet gun from ED shipyard - *** PD for 1 OD, works well if spammed), i did it with ragnarok, it performs pretty good after my upgrades. Long story short - he have typical problem of not having enough flux and powergreedy loadout, also, for some reason all his weapons bound in 1 group.

"Staple" is *** btw, i wasted half of day on it and didn't succeed, don't know what to expect from nagato, but i already can clearly see what it require stabilised shields and frontshield conversion, cause 1800 flux/sec is rediculous ammount.

P.S. Can send you some .variants if you want

staple is artillery ship, hence why its best with mjormirs and fighter cover.

you can DM me variants, though i intentionally made suboptimal builds for everything. and im not using mod weapons, for maximum compatibility

[PainProjection]

staple is artillery ship, hence why its best with mjormirs and fighter cover.

you can DM me variants, though i intentionally made suboptimal builds for everything. and im not using mod weapons, for maximum compatibility

Well that was tough... but today(tonight) i learn something new.
Did you know what "malfunction" =/= "critical malfunction"? Because i didn't.

The main reason why ragnarok SUCK is his "Ill-Advised_Modifications", this hullmod periodically causes not only common "malfunctions", but have very high chance for "critical malfunction". Difference between them is what after critical one weapon mount never ever be repaired untill the end of the battle, this leads to situation what eventually (aproximately in 1-2mins) ship will lose so much weapon mounts so he is not be able to deal any noticable damage (lost critical dps and not be able to break through shields). As i said i didn't know that, i notice what in the middle of fight i simply had less weapon groups than in the beginning, this is rediculous.

Anyway i notice another factor, seems like "Ill-Advised_Modifications" have some multiplier to % chance for critical malf. Something around X0.1 - X0.2 because when i set checkbox "Player Max Skills" to "true" it significantly decreace ammount of critical malfs, however i can't be sure what my results with ship is legit anymore. I managed to make half-decent loadout with only wanilla weapons, but as we all know player skills OP and doubles capabilities of any ship.

But there is another checkbox named "Enemy Max Skills" which i assume is simulate ace officer skill bonuses. Unfortinately with this parameter set to true ship doesn't have less critial malfunctions.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _________________________

Solutions:
First of all, you definetely should remove "Ill-Advised_Modifications" hull mod, for such big ship this thing just horrible handicap and nothing else.

I suggest you to replace "Integrated Target Unit" hullmod with "Advanced Target Optics" from paragon (+100% weapon range) Reason why this hullmod exists (and other modmakers put it on their supercapitals) is what such slow target like paragon must have advantage in range, otherwise it can be easely kited by ship what just slightly faster, in case of Ragnarok with his 15ms - every other capital. Maybe you need to create even better, custom hullmod, because i used 900su range weapons and +100% still be not enough, i guess.

Or give this fucker some speed, even "reckless" officer just refuse to use burn drive. Or both speed ~+10 and ATV

Anyway here is my current loadout for ragnarok, it can simulteneously fight vs 2 legions, 2 onslaught and 1 paragon, because first 4 like to overextend with their burn drives. But due to lack of range 3 paragons can easely harras him and take 0 hull damage back, still don't think what this is legit cause i used player simulation, i think max level officers should be almost OP as Player, but can't test it.


[attachment deleted by admin]

[scarface]

staple is artillery ship, hence why its best with mjormirs and fighter cover.

you can DM me variants, though i intentionally made suboptimal builds for everything. and im not using mod weapons, for maximum compatibility

Well that was tough... but today(tonight) i learn something new.
Did you know what "malfunction" =/= "critical malfunction"? Because i didn't.

The main reason why ragnarok SUCK is his "Ill-Advised_Modifications", this hullmod periodically causes not only common "malfunctions", but have very high chance for "critical malfunction". Difference between them is what after critical one weapon mount never ever be repaired untill the end of the battle, this leads to situation what eventually (aproximately in 1-2mins) ship will lose so much weapon mounts so he is not be able to deal any noticable damage (lost critical dps and not be able to break through shields). As i said i didn't know that, i notice what in the middle of fight i simply had less weapon groups than in the beginning, this is rediculous.

Anyway i notice another factor, seems like "Ill-Advised_Modifications" have some multiplier to % chance for critical malf. Something around X0.1 - X0.2 because when i set checkbox "Player Max Skills" to "true" it significantly decreace ammount of critical malfs, however i can't be sure what my results with ship is legit anymore. I managed to make half-decent loadout with only wanilla weapons, but as we all know player skills OP and doubles capabilities of any ship.

But there is another checkbox named "Enemy Max Skills" which i assume is simulate ace officer skill bonuses. Unfortinately with this parameter set to true ship doesn't have less critial malfunctions.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _________________________

Solutions:
First of all, you definetely should remove "Ill-Advised_Modifications" hull mod, for such big ship this thing just horrible handicap and nothing else.

I suggest you to replace "Integrated Target Unit" hullmod with "Advanced Target Optics" from paragon (+100% weapon range) Reason why this hullmod exists (and other modmakers put it on their supercapitals) is what such slow target like paragon must have advantage in range, otherwise it can be easely kited by ship what just slightly faster, in case of Ragnarok with his 15ms - every other capital. Maybe you need to create even better, custom hullmod, because i used 900su range weapons and +100% still be not enough, i guess.

Or give this fucker some speed, even "reckless" officer just refuse to use burn drive. Or both speed ~+10 and ATV

Anyway here is my current loadout for ragnarok, it can simulteneously fight vs 2 legions, 2 onslaught and 1 paragon, because first 4 like to overextend with their burn drives. But due to lack of range 3 paragons can easely harras him and take 0 hull damage back, still don't think what this is legit cause i used player simulation, i think max level officers should be almost OP as Player, but can't test it.

Ragnarok is supposed to be absolute *** though. and its strength comes from its sizable fighter complement + hull and armor. perdition bomber or my mods uhh. basically twin perdition PC works well. my supercapital ships shouldnt be able to defeat 5 capitals on their own too (at least under AI leadership), since they shouldnt be able to pull off whole 200 points of deployment by them self. Range is also limited by choice. its supposed to be spacehulk, burndrive to the target and fight in close. the modification hull mod is also on every panther ship from vanilla, and i dont want to mess with vanilla lore of panthers doing this to every ship they have. i appreciate the effort youve put in, but i dont design my ships to be the most OP ships in the game. every ship must have a flaw, balance and all that.

[PainProjection]

Well... i just tried to make fight hard, a challenging enemy, in modded starsector we have even more OP stuff than in vanilla. There is "Wurgandal" from ed shipyard who have barely enough damage to oneshot onslaught from his main cannon, phase capital ships or "Cathedral" from ship/weapon pack which with right loadout can devastate entire fleets literally solo.

So i thought what ragnarok supposed to be a bossfight (btw how i can meet this beast in game? is it just rare capital for ludds? or custom event) and i tried to make him a tough guy, so player must bring something special, something like titan torpedo from interstellar imperium. But as i said, even in vanilla we have Paragon which is actually in between capital and super capital class, even his deployment cost is 60. So you can bring few of them and win without casualties.

I didn't want to create ultimate beast for 200 deployment cost. My goal what i tried to achieve is no cheeky wins, only raw firepower and cannon fodder.

Your loadout vulnerable to:
1) Harras - Ill-Advised_Modifications hullmod make all job for you. Just entertain ragnarok ~1-2 minutes and he permanently lose most of his Large Ballistics and be not able to fight back
2) Kite - Paragons faster, have greater reach and powerful tachyons/high intensity lasers which countered by shields, but ragnarok have no shields, all damage is permanent
3) Fighter spam - any fighter wing armed with ion cannon or similar emp weapon, in sufficient quantity they cause malfunction of 95% weapon mounts with no chance to fend off
4) Exhaustion - not the greatest peak operating time, even if this ship wouldn't have Ill-Advised_Modifications you still can drain his combad readiness
5) Loadout flaw - inefficient weapon grouping

Thats why i ask to:
1) Remove Ill-Advised_Modifications
2) Change ITU to ATC
3) Enhance PD, devastators significantly raises requirement for ammount of wings to be considered as "sufficient quantity" and fill all bays with talon interceptors, they cheap, they replaced fast, they have swarmers and use them against ships if there is no enemy fighters presented, so they actually can act as weak bombers aswell
4) Add hardened subsystems like i did, just in case. Also solar shielding would be nice addition, for those smart bastards who can force fight in sun crown on purpose.
5) Manage weapon groups, PD should be in separate group, if all weapons in one group ship cannot multitask, it will protect himself from rockets and fighters or attack other ships. Also rockets must be in same group with main weapon array, this is purely for AI, because when he switch to rocket group he left main weapon array on autofire which causes significant flux waste. And no alterating, only linked mode.

It's up to you man, but you was right, in current state ragnarok is just overgrown prometheus