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Author Topic: Overrated (overpriced) ships  (Read 19195 times)

Thaago

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #255 on: September 28, 2019, 10:40:05 AM »

Pilums are... well their greatest strength is in their ability to confuse the AI and stick around as potential threats for a long time. I have seen them achieve hits, and watching their cloud of HE slowly, slowly, hit overloaded targets is oddly satisfying. ECCM is a tremendous boost to their effectiveness, but it also negates their low OP cost to a certain extent.

I wish that one of the new skills is a fleetwide boost to missile stats - that would be amazing for Pilums.
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TaLaR

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #256 on: September 28, 2019, 10:42:40 AM »

I mean just a bit better designs + getting less distracted by Pilums would have been enough to break this strategy. Not so with proper spam strategy (Spark Drovers).
Though it's actually questionable, how important Pilums actually are in yours. You do have a lot of converted hangar Sparks after all.
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Serenitis

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #257 on: September 28, 2019, 10:59:00 AM »

Pilum are not 'optimal' by any stretch, but they are certainly good enough to be an option if you're willing to consider it.

ECCM is a tremendous boost to their effectiveness, but it also negates their low OP cost to a certain extent.
Not wrong. But I prefer to think of it as the low cost allows me to more freely use that boost. And all the ships that you're likely to use as missile platforms have quite a lot of 'spare' OP when you're not using the more expensive missiles.

Though it's actually questionable, how important Pilums actually are in yours. You do have a lot of converted hangar Sparks after all.
And all of those are on Falcons, which are waypointed off into a corner so they get infinite peak time, which is something that I've found is really nescessary when you can't do large battle sizes and have to take the long haul through all the reinforcements.
The Sparks don't need to be there, but they are insurance in case the Falcons need to defend themselves. Usually I'd use Wasps or Talons for that, but I had a ton of Sparks so why wouldn't I use those instead? It's not like the Falcon can't afford it.
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Igncom1

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #258 on: September 28, 2019, 11:01:01 AM »

ECCM also reduces enemy ECM bonuses right? So that's another nice little bonus from using them!
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Thaago

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #259 on: September 28, 2019, 11:37:30 AM »

ECCM also reduces enemy ECM bonuses right? So that's another nice little bonus from using them!

Iirc, it halves the penalty from dominant enemy ECM for that one ship. That is actually pretty nice in the early stage of battle when the enemy has tons of numbers. Benefit most noticeable on... Dominators maybe? EMR + ECCM + 3 medium missiles is doable with its OP if using a slightly lighter gun load, triple harpoons is quite deadly, and as a slow ship it really needs gun range.
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Plantissue

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #260 on: September 29, 2019, 07:49:34 AM »

Having played around a bit with the Prometheus MKII, it's hard to quantify how much DP it is worth. Fighter bay makes it very hard to put a DP value on Prometheus MKII. Fighter bays which can be a large part of fluxless damage. There is nothing around its DP other than the Aurora and Doom both of which have problem in testing. It's certainly better than the Dominator, which is both outranges due to being a Capital, and outflux due to being limited to 50 OP instead of 30 OP. It is certainly worse than the Conquest or Onslaught. Though piloted with good weaponry and with the more OP skill, it can destroy both.

Mountwise it is quite similar to the Dominator. Like the Dominator, it either uses its two medium mounts for normal weapons or for flak which makes it lose a lot of potential firepower. The pather version is equipped with heavy Autocannons it seems. For fleet actions the large mounts covering a 135 degree arc is a definate positive over the Dominator. Inner large turrets are less likely to be disabled but frontal medium turrets very likely to get disabled. Testing under standard variant as a likely opponent ship shows that its vulvan turret arcs are hilariously underprotected from the front.

Dominator seems a bit useless now that Atlas MKII and Prometheus MKII exists. Both are more DP efficient but I suppose are logistically worse than Dominator. Perhaps the Dominator can do with its fixed hardpoint mounts to being as wide as the Apogee's and Hammerhead.

Prometheus MKII lower right small turret has less angle coverage despite being identical to the left.

There's something wrong with the Codex. I cannot find the 3rd medium ballistic or the 9th small ballistic mounts. I count 2 medium and 8 small mounts. They are missing on the model or the Codex is wrong.

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SCC

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #261 on: September 29, 2019, 08:15:19 AM »

Due to a bug, some weapon mounts were duplicated. You can observe it on Prometheus Mk II by equipping any medium ballistic weapon, then holding shift.
While Prometheus Mk II is too rare to be a Dominator substitute, Atlas Mk II isn't. Dominator has much better defences, but Atlas Mk II has appreciably more firepower and more range than Dominator.

Igncom1

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #262 on: September 29, 2019, 08:27:03 AM »

I find that their flux stats and general defences make them far too vulnerable to be used in any kind of serious battle.

A dominator cat at least adsorb anything but reaper torpedoes pretty easily, where as an atlas MKII tends to die to anything that bypasses the shield.
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

goduranus

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #263 on: September 29, 2019, 08:50:49 AM »

You guy got any good loadout for Colossus Mk2 and Mk3? Atlas and Prometheus conversions might not be top notch, but  combat Colossus are downright terrible. Especially the Mk3, which is basically a frigate but easier to hit.

Agile

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #264 on: September 29, 2019, 09:28:47 AM »

I thought MK III is the premier choice for early carrier support, since they get 3 fighter bays, no?

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goduranus

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #265 on: September 29, 2019, 09:34:02 AM »

I thought MK III is the premier choice for early carrier support, since they get 3 fighter bays, no?


Did I get the names wrong? I meant the worst Colossus is the LP one with SO. The carrier one has only 2 bays, imo not as good as the condor, but maybe it can work with Talons, railguns and ITU?

Agile

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #266 on: September 29, 2019, 09:49:14 AM »

I thought MK III is the premier choice for early carrier support, since they get 3 fighter bays, no?


Did I get the names wrong? I meant the worst Colossus is the LP one with SO. The carrier one has only 2 bays, imo not as good as the condor, but maybe it can work with Talons, railguns and ITU?

Oh, the SO LP one? Never used that one but id imagine the best way to use it is with hammers and just face slamming into your opponents till you explode onto them.

Never seen a good use for them tbh.

There is four types of colosseus that Pirates can field; the MK II, with two fighter bays, the MK III, which three fighter bays, and the BaTTLEgROUP FouRTEENTH (the literal conversion of it, no joke) which has Very Converted Bays and 3 fighter bays (very good early game if you can fight it, usually in hegemony markets in black market).

If your talking about the LP SO Colosseus, I have 0 clue on how to make it good cause its ... just bad in general.
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Goumindong

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #267 on: September 29, 2019, 11:51:26 AM »

The best part about the LP colosus is that if you fire the hammer point blank you get 5 explosions against your opponents armor
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Plantissue

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #268 on: September 30, 2019, 04:18:25 AM »

What are you people talking about? There is the Colossus MkII which has Safety Overides and built in Hammer Barrage and the Colossus MkIII which has 2 fighter bays. The MkII does not have any fighter bays and the MkIII does not have 3 fighter bays. There aren't any other variants.

Colossus MK II is only good for doing a somewhat prolonged burst damage with its built in Hammer Barrage which can catch out some ships. Once the ammo runs out in about 17 seconds, the MKII is practically useless. The Pathers equip them with so much weaponry that they can't possible fire them all. Their PD don't cover the front or rear, only the sides, though a human player can try to cover the front if they really want to. There aren't any range 450 small mounts either. I had some success with frontal Railgun, Light Mortar and Vulcan Cannons, thought it's doubtful you would want to use precious railguns on such a ship. Trying machine guns and light mortar practically makes the ship like one big bomb. In practice, you will never really want to buy this ship for its cost, or have the opportunity to recover it.

Colossus MK III is probably the cheapest fighterbay per DP, though if you are equiping it with fighters, since the drover can give extra fighters, it's not as good as it seems. It actually has a reasonably good amount of OP for it's DP so you can give it two bombers if you want to. Since it has similar stats to the MKII, in theory you can fight with it, but it's best to regard it as a massive Condor with no ability to defend its own engine. I think the Condor needs some attention to make it a ship people would want to use.

I had reasonable good success with Atlas MK II, even killing Capitals when supported. For its DP it can creat a nice anti frigate zone around itself. I did a recover only, bounty only run and recoving Atlas MKII was the only practical way to get ships good enough to face Atlas MKII themselves. Like the Colosuss MKII, it does prolonged burst damage, but can keep doing so without running out. I think I gave them Expanded Missile racks since much of their firepower is in their large missile mounts and only filled for the small mounts, the 2 frontmost and 2 rearmost mounts and left the mediums empty. The only problem with Atlas MKII compared with the Dominator is that it is bad logistically.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 04:35:10 AM by Plantissue »
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Megas

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #269 on: September 30, 2019, 04:57:50 AM »

I treat Colossus 3 as poor-man's Valkyrie.  Bring it for the Ground Support Package hullmod, which is nice for raiding markets with about 1000 defense or less (there are plenty such targets).  I would not rely on it for fighting.
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