Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Updated the Forum Rules and Guidelines (02/29/20); Blog post: GIF Roundup (04/11/20)

Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 19

Author Topic: Overrated (overpriced) ships  (Read 19582 times)

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2498
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #195 on: September 04, 2019, 03:21:02 PM »

Note that officer skills do skew things some - Defensive Systems and Power Grid Modulation are very nearly must-have options for an officer for an Aurora, and with that extra 25% shield cost reduction, going for stabilized + front shields is a bit less attractive.

I'll also note that my preferred Aurora variant mounts 2x pulse laser, 2x ir pulse, 4x ion cannon, 1x heavy blaster; this gives you 1100-ish sustained DPS for 1200-ish flux/s - not quite flux-neutral, but close enough (once we count in officer skills) - with the heavy blaster as a very-much-not-flux-neutral add-in when you need to break armor.  And once you've got a target high on flux, the ion cannons shut them down and let you stay close much longer than you could based on your shields alone.  The AI is, of course, not -as- competent with this build as the player can be, but it's also not terrible, either.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

sotanaht

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #196 on: September 04, 2019, 03:21:47 PM »

Stabalized shields isnt too bad a comparison. Aurora should probably have it, even over hardened shields. Aurora pays 9 OP for 212 effective dissipation when your shields are up. That is twice the value of vents! Its better than vents even if you have safety overrides! If you arent fitting that you should absolutely be fitting a front shield conversion which gives the same cost reduction for 1 more OP. You could even fit both and each one would still be better price than vents(unless you were SO) at 106 for 10 or 9 for the second mod.

Odyssey in comparison pays 15 for 125 effective dissipation. Worse than vents (still better than flux distributor but not by a whole lot). And you would almost certainly much prefer to go for the front shield conversion. Which is 125 for 18.(worse than a flux distributor but the ability to have rear shields is worth)

Hell i probably should have done a run for both on the Aurora. That gives the Aurora 1053 effective dissipation with its shields up! Which is enough to run a pulse laser and heavy blaster... almost exactly with .75 flux/second to spare. Which puts it at 803 DPS with decent (but not Odyssey) penetration at loadout design 2. The Odyssey does 57% more damage with shields up before considering fighters or the DP difference or the penetration difference. Which gives it a 5% damage per DP advantage. Still good but i think it changes my estimation of the Aurora to “actuallly it does a LOT of damage” rather than “yea it does pretty good damage”
Word of advice: I find that front shields interfere with the AI's ability to use broadside weapons.  They tend to waffle back and forth between aiming directly at the opponent and turning towards the broadside, which reduces DPS substantially.  That's why I end up fitting Accelerated Shields on the Odyssey.  The AI likes to raise and lower shields a lot, so accelerated prevents a pretty substantial amount of damage that would otherwise go around the slowly-raising shield.
Logged

Goumindong

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1193
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #197 on: September 04, 2019, 03:25:21 PM »

@wyvern. Yea but for the comparison the Odyssey does better for officer skills. You get more punch per officer because of the increased DP and because the better efficiency of plasma cannons makes the marginal flux increases more valuable.

It was easier to just ignore them. Even then with officer skills you get 160 flux for the first and 79 for the second. Still better than a distributor.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 03:26:58 PM by Goumindong »
Logged

mvp7

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #198 on: September 08, 2019, 10:09:37 AM »

Here's my Aurora build.

It's likely my last ship in the game as I don't feel like moving into Capital myself. Officers can handle them better than me and Aurora's incredible mobility serves me much better.

Two Pulse Lasers and three IR Pulse Lasers give a solid base damage against both shields and hull, they also shoot down fighters effectively. Sabots help take down shields and Ion Cannons will quickly cripple the unshielded enemy. Phase Lance is great for burst damage and stripping armour so that the pulse lasers and ion cannons can do their magic. Burst PD in the rear can shoot down occasional missiles and enemy fighters with ease.

Even with my limited flux skills (concentrated more of stuff that benefits the entire fleet) the five lasers and two ion cannons can sustain fire pretty much indefinitely with the Converted front shields. Front shield conversion gives the ship a 360 degree shield coverage which, together with almost maxed capacitors, makes the ship incredibly tough. In practice it takes a capital or concentrated kinetic weapon fire from several smaller ships to really even move the hard flux marker.

Plasma Jets give Aurora incredible mobility so it can get in and out of trouble with ease and catches even fastest frigates. It's definitely expensive to deploy, it doesn't pack massive alpha strike or DPS (although it will destroy any frigate or destroyer in seconds, wreck cruisers without breaking a sweat and can max the flux on most AI Capitals without too much trouble) but it's great general purpose combat ship that is invaluable in supporting the slow and cumbersome Onslaughts and Legions that form the core of my fleet.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 10:12:07 AM by mvp7 »
Logged

Igncom1

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #199 on: September 08, 2019, 10:22:17 AM »

Yeah not going to lie, I have some of the exploration cruisers with plasma cannons and ion cannons. Having them stun lock enemy ships is very nice.
Logged
Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4622
  • Quantum Mechanic
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #200 on: September 08, 2019, 06:35:28 PM »

2 heavy blasters on an Aurora is very comfortable as long as its not trying to take on very heavily shielded enemies: weapon flux should ALWAYS be higher than the maxed dissipation, because there will always be downtime where weapons aren't firing.

For more shielded enemies switching over to 1HB + PL + a few IR pulse is tempting, but I would rather just mount some sabots and stick to HB armor cracking. Even once the sabots run out, Auroras outflux most ships even with HBs. Not to mention that in real battle you can always use the superior speed for 2v1 with other ships, in which case the superior DPS shines even more.

IR Pulses and Pulse lasers are simply too weak against armor and hull of cruiser grade enemies...
Logged

goduranus

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #201 on: September 18, 2019, 11:25:43 AM »

Aha, I found an decent ammoless Odyssey build, based on the Odyssey build found in this thread. Not as much burst firepower, but Longbows give it a pretty decent long range anti-shield power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNyhTKQHPeI

Crimson Sky Gaurdian

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #202 on: September 18, 2019, 11:38:32 AM »

Exactly my point that I forgot to put. It's kinda ridiculous to have these big ships and they need a specific weapon out of a whole bunch just to be viable. And almost always they're high-tech ships which is a shame.
It might just be me, but High Tech being highly specific feels on point, thematically.
Logged

sotanaht

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #203 on: September 18, 2019, 12:48:39 PM »

Exactly my point that I forgot to put. It's kinda ridiculous to have these big ships and they need a specific weapon out of a whole bunch just to be viable. And almost always they're high-tech ships which is a shame.
It might just be me, but High Tech being highly specific feels on point, thematically.
High tech (ie energy) weapons simply don't offer much choice.  Once you've eliminated the beams and the emp weapons that don't do anything at all, you are left with only 2 options for a large slot, 3 for medium, and 2 for small.  The Mining Blaster and Antimatter Blaster are niche options, so really it's 2 large, 2 medium and 1 small.
Logged

Crimson Sky Gaurdian

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #204 on: September 18, 2019, 12:51:38 PM »

That's disappointing.
You'd think High Tech'd be highly specific, but have the most variety in what they do.
Logged

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2498
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #205 on: September 18, 2019, 12:57:17 PM »

Once you've eliminated the beams and the emp weapons that don't do anything at all
...Lol?  I mean, seriously, have you tried ion cannons?  Put four in the front hardpoints of an Aurora, and once you drive your enemy's flux up once they just stop being able to fight back effectively, capable of only sporadic return fire that your shield can easily absorb.  Or there's the HIL that, sure, doesn't do much against shields, but eats armor.  Or the Tachyon Lance that does all of the above (and is actually decent at forcing overloads on frigates/destroyers/high-flux-targets-of-any-size, too).
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #206 on: September 18, 2019, 01:06:43 PM »

Once you've eliminated the beams and the emp weapons that don't do anything at all
and once you drive your enemy's flux up
You outplayed yourself mate. We have enough energy weapons to punish ships with downed shields, any decent weapon can capitalize on that. The problem is breaking shields, which only Autopulse is decent at. Why spend 24 OP for weapons that only do something when you already won the fight, you're just taking more time to kill something. I'm not saying Ion Cannons are useless, but they're far from being that amazing.
Logged
Please don't take me seriously

sotanaht

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #207 on: September 18, 2019, 01:09:34 PM »

Once you've eliminated the beams and the emp weapons that don't do anything at all
and once you drive your enemy's flux up
You outplayed yourself mate. We have enough energy weapons to punish ships with downed shields, any decent weapon can capitalize on that. The problem is breaking shields, which only Autopulse is decent at. Why spend 24 OP for weapons that only do something when you already won the fight, you're just taking more time to kill something. I'm not saying Ion Cannons are useless, but they're far from being that amazing.
Have to agree.  90% of the fight is breaking the shield, the remaining 10% is just waiting for the enemy to die.  Once his flux is high he can't shoot much anyway, because he's doing everything he can to flicker shields and survive a few more seconds.
Logged

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2498
    • View Profile
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #208 on: September 18, 2019, 01:13:16 PM »

Have to agree.  90% of the fight is breaking the shield, the remaining 10% is just waiting for the enemy to die.  Once his flux is high he can't shoot much anyway, because he's doing everything he can to flicker shields and survive a few more seconds.
Lolnope.  I mean, sure, that's how it plays out against lightly armored pirate clunkers, but try that philosophy against anything with heavy armor and you're going to get owned.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

sotanaht

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #209 on: September 18, 2019, 01:14:41 PM »

Have to agree.  90% of the fight is breaking the shield, the remaining 10% is just waiting for the enemy to die.  Once his flux is high he can't shoot much anyway, because he's doing everything he can to flicker shields and survive a few more seconds.
Lolnope.  I mean, sure, that's how it plays out against lightly armored pirate clunkers, but try that philosophy against anything with heavy armor and you're going to get owned.
Works just as well against Onslaughts and Dominators.  Once their flux is up, they barely fight back as long as you don't let them run away to vent, which is kind of hard to do when they only move at 30
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 19