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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Ship Loadouts  (Read 2016 times)

pedro1_1

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2019, 12:28:55 PM »

Here's the perennial Magpie's perspective on some of these:

Tempest
Capacitors: 9
Vents: 10
Weapons: 1x Heavy Blaster, 1x Tactical Laser, 1x Salamander MRM
Hullmods: Efficiency Overhaul, Hardened Subsystems, Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduits
Needs Reinforced Bulkheads as Tempest is not disposable, and I want to keep it because even as a junker Temps own hard.
Not too concerned about ITU as it has the native speed to close distance. And don't care about H.Subsys as Tempest is the clearup and pursuit crew, it just doesn't need it. Would swap this for Unstable Injector for yet more speed.
I'd be tempted to swap the Salamander for Sabots on half of my Tempests instead for extra shield breaking.

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Mule
Capacitors: 12
Vents: 20
Weapons: 1x Arbalest Cannon, 2x Salamander MRM, 2x Light Mortar, 1x Vulcan Cannon
Hullmods: Efficiency Overhaul, Integrated Targeting Unit, Reinforced Bulkheads, Resistant Flux Conduits
Mules are better as fleet support than they are at being on the front line.
Get rid of ITU and fit Converted Hangar with a wing of interceptors (Wasps preferred for crew saving, but Talons work fine).
Flux Conduits aren't needed so this can be swapped for a campaign mod like Surveying Equipment if needed.
Put Pilum in the medium mount, keep the Salamanders, and swap the mortars for 2 more vulcans.

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Sunder (beam)
Capacitors: 1
Vents: 24
Weapons: 1x High Intensity Laser, 2x Graviton Beam, 2x Light Autocannon, 1x Vulcan Cannon
Hullmods: Advanced Optics, Efficiency Overhaul, Integrated Targeting Unit, Reinforced Bulkheads, Stabilized Shields
Autocannons are a waste here. If they're in range to fire at something, the ship isn't doing it's job right.
Either swap for LMG/Vulcan or leave empty.
Also really benefits from having Sabots on the wings.

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Heron (late)
Capacitors: 5
Vents: 17
Fighters:  3x Sparks
Weapons: 1x Heavy Blaster, 4x Burst PD Laser
Hullmods: Efficiency Overhaul, Reinforced Bulkheads
Interceptors on Heron is a waste of its targetting ability. And it doesn't have the flux to support a gun in it's medium slot and keep it's shields up. Especially that gun.
Downgrade the Burst lasers to standard PD. Fit a missile in the medium, Pilum and Salamander are good but anything will work.
Put bombers in the bays. All of them work well (yes, even Pirahna), but Heron doesn't have the OP to use Trident.

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Mora
Capacitors: 8
Vents: 27
Fighters:  1x Khopesh, 1x Broadsword, 1x Talon
Weapons: 2x Hammer Torpedo, 3x Vulcan Cannon, 3x Light Mortar, 2x Light Autocannon
Hullmods: Efficiency Overhaul, Reinforced Bulkheads, Surveying Equipment
I'd use the Mora as an Interceptor/Suppression platform as it's always going to end up in the thick of things, and saturating space with fighters helps the entire fleet.
Doesn't need Surveying stuff as transports do that without having to sacrifice combat ability. I would instead use Recovery Shuttles to protect my precious crew.
Medium missles are a good fit for Pilum here as the Mora can still contribute as it's slowly shuffling into range.


until here I was okay whit your post, but you needed to make it sour, din't you?

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Odyssey
Capacitors: 0
Vents: 40
Fighters:  1x Xyphos, 1x Mining Pod
Weapons: 2x Plasma Cannon, 1x Hurricane MIRV Launcher, 3x Salamander SRM, 11x PD Laser
Hullmods: Efficiency Overhaul, Hardened Shields, Integrated Point Defense AI, Integrated Targeting Unit, Resistant Flux Conduits
Does IPDAI do something other than turn small mounts into makeshift PD? Seems like not a great use of OP for a ship already using dedicated PD.
Personally, I really dislike plasma on Odyssey as the projectiles end up missing half the time. Beams are much better imo, either Tachyon or HIL work fine. (Tachyon if you want to control guns, HIL if you want to control missiles.)
Doesn't really need Resistant Flux or Hardened Shields, but really wants a pair of Xyphos for PD, suppression and more beams.

Odyssey is not a kiter, it the flux stat's to backup on it's shield as long as it's feated whit Hardened Shields and resistent flux conduits just makes the "how do I vent whitout the enemy punishing me?" question non existent, specialy because most of the time you will be shoting at another capital ship's back because it's flanker it has all the flux it needs to 1v1 most capitals whit no problem at all just get in the back and kill it you are fast enought to do that as a Odyssey, by the way Xyphos just don't cut, sparks have just much beter PD, specialy if you want to acttualy soup it up whit more hull mods

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Unstable Injector and Adv. Optics are also something to consider if you're going the maximum beam HIL route, so you turn it into an obnoxios kiting machine.

it's not like it's the best flanker in the game right now, not any chance at all

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Medium missiles work as either Sabot for shield breaking or Salmander for shield diverting.
Locust generally works better than MIRV as Ody can't afford ECCM without giving up something else it needs more.

why are you wasting the large Sinergy whit a locust launcher, because it can't fit ECCM, even thoug it has free ECCM?

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Another thing to consider is that shields are also a weapon (of a sort), and the Odyssey is uniquely blessed amongst ships to take advantage of this in an easy, repeatable, and amusing manner.

yes
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Plantissue

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2019, 12:39:30 PM »

Spooky. Some of the loadouts are close to what I have, minus the Efficiency Overhaul. I suppose there are only so many ways to configure a ship. Making a loadout for an AI Conquest is a new one for me though. Why is middle ballistic mount on Eagle #2 empty? Surely it'll be worth it to put one of the flux efficient ballistic mounts in? Unless only 2 heavy needlers is needed to drop shields for the 2 phase lance.
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TaLaR

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2019, 12:44:03 PM »

Why is middle ballistic mount on Eagle #2 empty? Surely it'll be worth it to put one of the flux efficient ballistic mounts in? Unless only 2 heavy needlers is needed to drop shields for the 2 phase lance.

I'd assume typo. 2x H Needler + empty do not make any sense at all. You could have 3x HAC for same OP cost with more kinetic dps.
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Megas

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2019, 12:51:25 PM »

@ Serenitis:
Tempest does not need Reinforced Bulkheads if piloted by officer, thanks to (must-have) Fleet Logistics.  I only bring one in my fleet (or few if it is a pure Tempest fleet to clean up system bounties).  I usually use Tempest for the rare times I manually fight pursuits.

I may not have Converted Hangar when I use Mules.  I use Mules because I take what I can find in early game.  Mules are tanky, can do some damage, and have capacity.  Mules are early disposable grunts alongside Enforcer and Shrike (P).  Also, I do not always use Salamander.  Sometimes, I use Hammers, Atropos, Annihilators, or Swarmers instead, depending on what I have.

Autocannons on Sunder is to make AI frigates like Lashers hover away from Sunder instead of just casually absorb the beams, charge in, and then flux-lock Sunder with machine guns or other weapons of their own.  Sunder can back away as much as it wants, but frigates are faster and will catch up and tear Sunder without autocannons apart with ease.  I tried machine guns instead of autocannons, but they are set back far enough that something like Lasher has effectively more range and will win machinegun duel.  Simply put, autocannons are enough to keep frigates that can shield-tank beams long enough (then fire back with hard flux weapons) at bay.

As for Mora and transports, my transports are capital-sized and cannot fit Surveying hullmod due to two campaign mod limit.  Transports have Augmented Engines (slower than battleships) and Efficiency Overhaul (capitals are pigs)!  I am already near the fleet cap with other ships, so bringing smaller transports is not an option!  I need to fit surveying somewhere.  Apogees and Shepherd only are not enough.  I need more ships with Surveying.  Mora has some spare OP to squeeze in surveying.  It is the only reason why I bring some Mora instead of all Herons.  Also, Mora is a potential disposable clunker.  It does not matter too much what I throw on it as long as it can tank and do campaign stuff.

Odyssey with IPDAI.  Without Advanced Countermeasures 3, PD Laser is not powerful enough for anti-missile.  It needs IPDAI for beams to be powerful enough.  Even with IPDAI, PD Laser is still always not powerful enough.

Other comments...
I do not like Pilums at all.  If I want to use Pilums well, I need to build my entire fleet around them.

For energy PD, I generally prefer burst PD over all.  They seem to perform the best at stopping missiles, and can occasionally hurt some weaker enemies.

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why are you wasting the large Sinergy whit a locust launcher, because it can't fit ECCM, even thoug it has free ECCM?
Locusts are cheaper and are a good all-purpose launcher for anyone?  MIRVs cost seven more OP than Locusts, and Odyssey is a bit OP starved.  That said, if I need something to use MIRVs, Odyssey is the best choice due to free ECCM.  I wish I can say the same for Hammer Barrage, in which the best ship for that is the limited Legion (XIV), with Conquest as the runner-up (in case LegionXIV cannot be found).

Why is middle ballistic mount on Eagle #2 empty? Surely it'll be worth it to put one of the flux efficient ballistic mounts in? Unless only 2 heavy needlers is needed to drop shields for the 2 phase lance.

I'd assume typo. 2x H Needler + empty do not make any sense at all. You could have 3x HAC for same OP cost with more kinetic dps.
Not a typo.  I tried three Heavy Autocannons on Eagle, but the flux load from that and two phase lances are too much for Eagle.  Two Heavy Needlers is a bit less damage than three heavy ACs, but significantly more flux efficient, enough that using phase lances is not too much flux use.  Instead of two heavy needlers, I can use two Arbalests and one Heavy Autocannon.  Almost as good, but the Arbalests have less range.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 12:55:13 PM by Megas »
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Megas

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2019, 12:53:41 PM »

Spooky. Some of the loadouts are close to what I have, minus the Efficiency Overhaul. I suppose there are only so many ways to configure a ship. Making a loadout for an AI Conquest is a new one for me though. Why is middle ballistic mount on Eagle #2 empty? Surely it'll be worth it to put one of the flux efficient ballistic mounts in? Unless only 2 heavy needlers is needed to drop shields for the 2 phase lance.
Flux use.  Two Heavy Needlers and two phase lances is about as much flux use Eagle can handle for phase lances.  More than that and Eagle kills itself from too much flux use.
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TaLaR

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2019, 12:54:56 PM »

Not a typo.  I tried three Heavy Autocannons on Eagle, but the flux load from that and two phase lances are too much for Eagle.  Two Heavy Needlers is a bit less damage than three heavy ACs, but significantly more flux efficient, enough that using phase lances is not too much flux use.  Instead of two heavy needlers, I can use two Arbalests and one Heavy Autocannon.  Almost as good, but the Arbalests have less range.

Oh, Heavy Needler was improved to 0.8 efficiency in 0.9.1. Didn't notice.
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TaLaR

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2019, 12:59:11 PM »

Spooky. Some of the loadouts are close to what I have, minus the Efficiency Overhaul. I suppose there are only so many ways to configure a ship. Making a loadout for an AI Conquest is a new one for me though. Why is middle ballistic mount on Eagle #2 empty? Surely it'll be worth it to put one of the flux efficient ballistic mounts in? Unless only 2 heavy needlers is needed to drop shields for the 2 phase lance.
Flux use.  Two Heavy Needlers and two phase lances is about as much flux use Eagle can handle for phase lances.  More than that and Eagle kills itself from too much flux use.

AI is not very good at handling flux-heavy main weapons, but an Eagle with 1x HB + 2x Graviton, 2x HAC/HNeedler + 1x H Mauler is nice.
It can use HB to fire excess flux when not pressured, but also has sufficient weapon package when it can't afford to use HB.
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Plantissue

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2019, 01:18:19 PM »

Spooky. Some of the loadouts are close to what I have, minus the Efficiency Overhaul. I suppose there are only so many ways to configure a ship. Making a loadout for an AI Conquest is a new one for me though. Why is middle ballistic mount on Eagle #2 empty? Surely it'll be worth it to put one of the flux efficient ballistic mounts in? Unless only 2 heavy needlers is needed to drop shields for the 2 phase lance.
Flux use.  Two Heavy Needlers and two phase lances is about as much flux use Eagle can handle for phase lances.  More than that and Eagle kills itself from too much flux use.
I assumed it was intended as a player ship due to the phase lance.
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Megas

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2019, 02:59:41 PM »

Even as a playership, too much flux use is dangerous, especially if some of the weapons are on auto.  Of course, I like loadouts that are good for players and AI alike, especially if I want to switch to cheese Afflictor during a fight and have AI take over my former flagship for a short while.
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Tackywheat1

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2019, 06:26:30 PM »


Autocannons on Sunder is to make AI frigates like Lashers hover away from Sunder instead of just casually absorb the beams, charge in, and then flux-lock Sunder with machine guns or other weapons of their own.  Sunder can back away as much as it wants, but frigates are faster and will catch up and tear Sunder without autocannons apart with ease.  I tried machine guns instead of autocannons, but they are set back far enough that something like Lasher has effectively more range and will win machinegun duel.  Simply put, autocannons are enough to keep frigates that can shield-tank beams long enough (then fire back with hard flux weapons) at bay.
e.

I run beam (2x graviton 1x HIL) sunder with 2 LMG for point defense and Lashers are very easy to deal with. If they rush just drop shields and melt with Sunders active. Guarenteed shield overload in a few seconds. Although AI is very stupid when playing beam sunder....
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Megas

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2019, 06:59:46 PM »

Beam Sunder would almost certainly be under AI control, since it works best as a pack of beam Sunders (and I can only pilot one ship), and I have better ships to pilot like Reaper Afflictor or any big ship.
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Tackywheat1

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2019, 07:05:17 PM »

With end game fleets, yes sunder is most likely going to be under AI control. Atm with my fleet I occasionally pilot my one sunder whenever I'm facing derelict or pirates. (Don't have an afflictor yet)

Edit: Oh why not railgun instead of AC? (OP cost?)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 07:07:56 PM by Tackywheat1 »
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goduranus

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2019, 08:36:00 PM »

Drover :P
Capacitors: 20
Vents: 15
Fighters:  1x Broadsword, 1x Talon
Weapons: No weapons
Hullmods: Hardened Subsystems, Expanded Deck Crew, Extended Shields

Our Fighters will blout out the sun!

Tempest
Capacitors: 10
Vents: 10
Weapons: 1x Antimatter Blaster, 1x Pulse Laser
Hullmods: Frontal Shield Emitter, Unstable Injector

AM Blaster projectile goes faster than Heavy Blaster, much easier to score hits on evading frigates.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 08:45:46 PM by goduranus »
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Tackywheat1

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2019, 11:23:50 PM »

Isn't tempest supposed to stay at medium/long range?
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TaLaR

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Re: Ship Loadouts
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2019, 11:50:13 PM »

AM Blaster projectile goes faster than Heavy Blaster, much easier to score hits on evading frigates.

AM Blaster shot takes MUCH longer to reach target because it has pre-fire delay, while HB fires instantly. Projectile speed difference is minor if is is there at all.
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