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[intrinsic_parity]

I also have started taking the skill that gives extra salvage, and with that skill, fights become almost universally net positive in supplies and fuel, so I can generally fly around indefinitely as long as I am occasionally fighting bounties, derelicts and remnant. No need to go to colonies to resupply.

[Thaago]

I also have started taking the skill that gives extra salvage, and with that skill, fights become almost universally net positive in supplies and fuel, so I can generally fly around indefinitely as long as I am occasionally fighting bounties, derelicts and remnant. No need to go to colonies to resupply.

I normally don't go industry, but the time I did it for fun this was the case - I had plentiful fuel, supplies, and many recovered ships with only a few (reduced impact) D mods.

The reduced impact of D mods is interesting to consider in light of vs. the +10% OP from loadout design. For example Faulty Power Grid - -20% to cap an -20% to vents. On a destroyer, thats equivalent to... somewhere around 10 OP? Something like that. Only worse because it effects the maximum limit. Reducing the D mod impact is equivalent to getting ~5 OP back (only better). Looking at the other D mods, the OP equivalent of the impact is similar: I think if running a fleet with 2+ D mods on many ships, loadout design is worse than D mod reduction in terms of ship power.

Its not really a surprising conclusion (if you have D mods, D mod reduction is great). Just more evidence that in answer to the question "should I rush loadout design" the answer for many playthroughs is "no, many other options are more powerful at this stage of the game, but its good later".

[Megas]

If I have Shrikes to use early, I get Loadout Design 3 just to get barely enough OP to fit what I want on them.  Otherwise, it may be okay to wait since there is not much to use early.

[Thaago]

Yeah it is more needed on some ships than others, thats true. I think Shrikes are functional without it, but as light destroyers they need all the help they can get when facing real destroyers or cruisers. Especially if they don't have good weapons, which is often the case early game.

[intrinsic_parity]

If I have already taken skills that improve the efficiency of my fleet and increase salvage so that my supply situation is always fine, then I don't see the point in also using d-modded ships and losing combat power, when my efficiency issues are already covered by other skills. I generally am ok with a 1 or 2 d-mod ship if they are low impact hull mods like hull reduction. Some of the other d-mods are also ok on a case by case basis, but I run 80-90% pristine ships I buy off the black market. I find salvaging ships to be mostly useless, I can scale more than fast enough buying ships and solve my efficiency problems with skills, so there's no reason to hinder myself with sub par ships. The only time I every salvage is for super rare ships that I intend to restore, or in some very specific cases (like a first cruiser or first capital that I really need). I think salvaging is sort of trap option in most cases. Even if you are playing with d-modded ships, you still probably don't want to grow your fleet too quickly so 80%+ of the ships you see you will not recover.

[Thaago]

I usually play like you do I think - 80-90% pristine ships and a high power fleet. I was surprised by how much I liked my industry challenge run though! Bought 2 destroyers the entire game and in retrospect I didn't need to.

Growing the fleet too quickly is the main problem with an industry/bounty run, because the challenges aren't really there. The bounties scale so slowly compared to how fast the player grows in power that it is more like chore work than good fights, and then when the player has 25 ships or so it becomes difficult to get the recoveries that are wanted. Raising the ship limit is needed not to have a bigger fleet, but just to get the correct ships.

I see the main benefit of the industry skills is explosive, hyper fast growth early game followed by having excellent colonies late game. Also, not giving a single care when a ship blows up is very nice. The main downside is hitting the deployment point cap with less powerful ships... but on the other hand, no AI fleet is capable of stopping an endgame player fleet even with D mods, so it doesn't really matter. Its less elegant I guess, needing bigger ships for the same job. Its reducing endgame power from a 20 to an 18, when all the player needs to crush everything is a 10.