Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 28 29 [30] 31 32 ... 48

Author Topic: [0.9.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 3.5.3 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.)  (Read 597036 times)

Ahne

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile

..because when you got it in a market you buy it,its simply too strong and it can overpower other similar ships in battle (i talk generally about rarity as a balancing factor)

//thats the easy way to describe the problem, im not in the mood to go into detail because your short "why not?" message implicates a subtle taste of ignorance and prejudiced opinion on that topic and you believe that there will be no answer to that "question"

Logged

WKOB

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Odobenidine Benefactor
    • View Profile

It's a single-player RPG, people are going to do that anyway.

I mean, the Paragon is clearly OP but it's balanced by price and rarity, what's the real difference? I'm not saying that these ships might or might not be a little too much, but this constant need for all the ships to be perfectly in-line with one another is just odd to me.

It's just how the real world works, a Hi-Point 9mm is extremely common, extremely cheap and it's trash, a Glock 19 is just slightly less common, it's more expensive and it's decent, a customized competition Tanfoglio 9mm is rare, expensive and flat-out better than the other two options.

Quote
subtle taste of ignorance
Talk about reading into things too much, it was a simple question because I don't understand the concept.
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile

The Paragon isn't balanced, even with it's rarity. As soon as you find one you finished the game. (It's much less OP in SS+ but that's another story) Besides there is a difference between having ONE ship rare and OP and a whole bunch of them: you could reliably find at least one each month.

subtle taste of ignorance
From someone that keeps bugging modders to update their mods all the time without the slightest idea of the work it represent, I find this subtle taste of arrogance disturbing.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 01:08:35 AM by Tartiflette »
Logged
 

WKOB

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Odobenidine Benefactor
    • View Profile

So... you're saying that the campaign is inherently flawed due to it's unfinished state, and therefore trying to reach balance in it is somewhat pointless? :P
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile

On the contrary! I'm stating that balancing your whole mod against a singular obviously flawed instance is a bad idea. (An common error in many mods that used to balance their ships against the Paragon when the Onslaught is a far better measure)

And even if it was a valid balancing factor, my point stand that it encourage grinding or gaming the mechanic, witch aren't desirable I believe.

[edit] I'm not saying it's a useless balancing factor! It does help, but it's not that effective, and can't bring in line clearly OP ships because they will always be worth the investment. A combination of High Maintenance hullmod and high supplies per day on the other hand are way more efficient, because this ship drain your resources all the time and you must be sure to be able to afford it's usage, not just the initial cost.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 01:13:30 AM by Tartiflette »
Logged
 

MesoTroniK

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1731
  • I am going to destroy your ships
    • View Profile

I am not saying that they need to be perfectly in-line with other ships, but simply have a downside to counteract their prowess in combat. Being a resource drain like a Hyperion would do it, but this is simply my opinion :)

WKOB

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Odobenidine Benefactor
    • View Profile

Fair enough points, that's basically what I was looking for to sate my own curiosity.
Logged

Tartiflette

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3529
  • MagicLab discord: https://discord.gg/EVQZaD3naU
    • View Profile

Glad to be of service  ;)
Spoiler
Quote
[10:16:33] MesoTroniK: what a spontaneous argument in the JP thread
[10:16:58] Tartiflette: It's not an argument, it's an exchange of opinion
[10:17:04] Tartiflette: no name calling involved
[10:17:34] MesoTroniK: I consider this an argument, it is staying on track
[10:18:02] Tartiflette: I don't know, it's too civil to be called an internet argument ^^
First time in internet history an argument doesn't degenerate!
[close]
Logged
 

Ahne

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile

Quote
From someone that keeps bugging modders to update their mods all the time without the slightest idea of the work it represent, I find this subtle taste of arrogance disturbing.

You call me bugging someone and that i don't appreciate their hard work?

You really should read more of my replies and messages to the modders section, i have often told the modders and Alex and all the guys who deliver content for the game that i really appreciate and enjoy their work.

Stop that lying immediately or i lose all respect to you.
Logged

mendonca

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1159
    • View Profile

I love the mod as always mendonca, but a couple of preliminary thoughts and observations regarding this update.

You forgot to add the maps for the new skins to the texture_data.csv, and those ships are really powerful with no real downsides. In my opinion you should give them the High Maintenance hullmod, increase their FP cost, and perhaps add a custom hullmod that increases supplies/day. The increased credit cost of them just is not enough to justify the rather large increase of power that those ships wield.


On the statement: 'Those ships are really powerful ..." is that true? As in, have you actually played with one? Is this specific or is this based on viewing the skin files and making some assumptions? REALLY powerful, or just, a bit powerful?

I'm not trying to be irritating or inflammatory, I just don't necessarily think they (all) are, and it is also a genuine question.

They also do have an increased FP cost (marginal in most cases, this could be looked at).

In simple terms the rationale was indeed to add 'high-end' ships, with no downsides.

The intent was to give a range of ships going from 'PACK Baseline' (which is pretty trash) to a little bit better - through core epoch and up to expansion levels of performance (the Canebianco ships probably do this - are they too good? I don't truly know, I tend to avoid playing with the Tempest et. al).

Fixed hullmods means that in some cases - the customisation has already been done - is this a valid balancing point? A hardened shield Canebianco ship can't be hardened again.

On reflection, I'm thinking a high maintenance type of hullmod would not harm these ships (especially the Canebianco ships), but (whether this is good or bad) I do think it might tip them back below the line where you would want them in your fleet as opposed to a vanilla expansion vessel, for instance.

Would love some specific ship-by-ship feedback, if any has some to give me :)
Logged


"I'm doing it, I'm making them purple! No one can stop me!"

Nanao-kun

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 829
    • View Profile

I will honestly admit that even with this mod installed, I never really bothered with the ships that much. But then I saw "rare ships" and ended up wanting to fly some. :-X
Logged

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2806
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia

I love the mod as always mendonca, but a couple of preliminary thoughts and observations regarding this update.

You forgot to add the maps for the new skins to the texture_data.csv, and those ships are really powerful with no real downsides. In my opinion you should give them the High Maintenance hullmod, increase their FP cost, and perhaps add a custom hullmod that increases supplies/day. The increased credit cost of them just is not enough to justify the rather large increase of power that those ships wield.


On the statement: 'Those ships are really powerful ..." is that true? As in, have you actually played with one? Is this specific or is this based on viewing the skin files and making some assumptions? REALLY powerful, or just, a bit powerful?

I'm not trying to be irritating or inflammatory, I just don't necessarily think they (all) are, and it is also a genuine question.

They also do have an increased FP cost (marginal in most cases, this could be looked at).

In simple terms the rationale was indeed to add 'high-end' ships, with no downsides.

The intent was to give a range of ships going from 'PACK Baseline' (which is pretty trash) to a little bit better - through core epoch and up to expansion levels of performance (the Canebianco ships probably do this - are they too good? I don't truly know, I tend to avoid playing with the Tempest et. al).

Fixed hullmods means that in some cases - the customisation has already been done - is this a valid balancing point? A hardened shield Canebianco ship can't be hardened again.

On reflection, I'm thinking a high maintenance type of hullmod would not harm these ships (especially the Canebianco ships), but (whether this is good or bad) I do think it might tip them back below the line where you would want them in your fleet as opposed to a vanilla expansion vessel, for instance.

Would love some specific ship-by-ship feedback, if any has some to give me :)

They're better with virtually no drawbacks.  Some of the CB versions have a huge increase in OP and a large chunk of effective OP gained from those hull mods, and the SA and RH versions are no pushovers either.  I suggest introducing a built-in hullmod for each of the skin types (CA, RH, CB) that penalizes logistics rating in an increasing manner.  The CA hullmod would probably just increase supplies/day by 25%.  RH would increase by 35%, and CB would increase by 50%.
Logged

mendonca

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1159
    • View Profile
[0.65.2a] 'Junk Pirates' 2.3.6 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.) - Shaderlib Required
« Reply #447 on: February 23, 2015, 01:43:42 PM »

Okey dokey, that was a quick retreat. Thanks for all the feedback, in case it's not clear it is all thoroughly appreciated.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates236.zip

Junk Pirates 2.3.6
- PACK Skins now all 'High Maintenance' - or rather 'Overclocked'. Caomarelo ships work at 15% flat supply usage even when at max CR, Rothund at 20%, Canebianco at 30% plus 10% penalty to CR timer.
- Added shader / texture data for PACK skins (retain normals / materials of original hulls - let me know if this is jarring but hopefully shouldn't be too much of a difference between the skins / hulls).
- Dropped a bit of range off the ripsaw down to 650, as even with a slight bump in Flux usage it is a bit relentless with infinite ammo.

Any more thoughts greatly appreciated :)
Logged


"I'm doing it, I'm making them purple! No one can stop me!"

Agalyon

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile

Okey dokey, that was a quick retreat. Thanks for all the feedback, in case it's not clear it is all thoroughly appreciated.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66536185/junk_pirates236.zip

Junk Pirates 2.3.6
- PACK Skins now all 'High Maintenance' - or rather 'Overclocked'. Caomarelo ships work at 15% flat supply usage even when at max CR, Rothund at 20%, Canebianco at 30% plus 10% penalty to CR timer.
- Added shader / texture data for PACK skins (retain normals / materials of original hulls - let me know if this is jarring but hopefully shouldn't be too much of a difference between the skins / hulls).
- Dropped a bit of range off the ripsaw down to 650, as even with a slight bump in Flux usage it is a bit relentless with infinite ammo.

Any more thoughts greatly appreciated :)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think DR just meant supplies per day, not actual high maintenance.
Logged

mendonca

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1159
    • View Profile

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think DR just meant supplies per day, not actual high maintenance.
No need to correct you, I'm pretty sure that was what D.R meant.

I've gone for something closer to MesoTronik's suggestion, and changed it slightly just to be difficult.
Logged


"I'm doing it, I'm making them purple! No one can stop me!"
Pages: 1 ... 28 29 [30] 31 32 ... 48