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Author Topic: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?  (Read 21109 times)

MrDeath

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2019, 08:54:49 AM »

Both.

Agree with the gate comment in the idea that late-mid/late game Storms get tedious and annoying. But I do figure the gates exist -because- they will eventually work on base game so that late-mid-game can avoid tedious travel. So, yeah, get the mod in the mean time.

Early - Mid/early, I think storms are absolutely fine. I would intentionally subject myself to them to bounce to Bounties/make that extra Trade Mission I picked up in time.

The timers on trade/missions mean that time is a resource in the game and the routes you take will effect the speed of your progression. Early on that is going to be difficult. Storms aid/deter in the players choice of time management and on if they are willing to gamble on certain timers.

So they have a valid reason, but I do agree that later on in the game there should be an option to bypass them as they serve their purpose of making the early-mid game riskier.

And it -looks- like from the inclusions of gates that the late game issue will be addressed.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 08:57:37 AM by MrDeath »
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sotanaht

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2019, 11:16:37 AM »

I'm pretty sure the gates only exist for lore reasons.  The current state of the sector is because of the "collapse" of the Domain gate network.  It's been this way for a long time.  If restarting the gates ever becomes possible, it would likely only be from finishing the game's "main quest".

It absolutely would be awesome to use them though, I'll look into that mod.
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Darloth

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2019, 01:27:21 PM »

At least once I was bounced by a hyperspace storm and as a result was intercepted by a Remnant fleet I could otherwise have evaded.  I lost that battle. 

I've also sometimes come out of a storm front with several ships needing considerable repair, enough that I wouldn't want to use them in combat, and so I don't agree that they're inconsequential.
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Eji1700

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2019, 01:41:48 PM »

I think it's a mechanic that needs expanding and made a post detailing some ideas to that effect awhile ago that Alex is at least aware of (responded to and mentioned going over some of it).

For anyone who wants to read the whole thing (it's not exactly short)-

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15591.msg251581#msg251581
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Hellya

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2019, 06:16:18 PM »

I am resurrecting this thread.

I started up SC again and love the game. But the Hyperspace Storms are just game ruining. Not even fun in the slightest. Tedious, frustrating, wasteful. Slow boating through magic space lightning storms is, well, painfully boring.

There are many ways to make hyperspace enjoyable. As stated already, ships and objects to explore or navigate around. Maybe make hyperspace a strategic map where entering other peoples (including AI and Pirates) territory spawn a daunting fleet to run from or buy your freedom from.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2019, 06:24:57 PM »

I am resurrecting this thread.

I started up SC again and love the game. But the Hyperspace Storms are just game ruining. Not even fun in the slightest. Tedious, frustrating, wasteful. Slow boating through magic space lightning storms is, well, painfully boring.

There are many ways to make hyperspace enjoyable. As stated already, ships and objects to explore or navigate around. Maybe make hyperspace a strategic map where entering other peoples (including AI and Pirates) territory spawn a daunting fleet to run from or buy your freedom from.
Are you sure you're using the most recent version? Hyperspace storms bounce you around like a pinball now, they're anything but slow.
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bobucles

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2019, 06:35:16 PM »

Quote
Maybe make hyperspace a strategic map where entering other peoples (including AI and Pirates) territory spawn a daunting fleet to run from or buy your freedom from.
This is hyperspace, not tall grass.

ChaseBears

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2019, 06:39:00 PM »

in my experience, if you have the skills, its far easier to autonavigate on sustained burn through storms than it is to go around them.  You save a LOT of time, which equates to saving a lot of resources.  On autonavigation your fleet can generally stay aimed at its target so long as you are flying directly at it.  With high speed of 30 or more you can skip a LOT of storm and only take ~3 hits.

I think storms should be reworked to be less common, instead of a virtually guaranteed constant of deep hyperspace.  Then they can be deadlier among other things.  A combination between randomly occuring storms - weather - and persistent stationary storms - a 'badlands' - would be ideal, imo.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 06:43:31 PM by ChaseBears »
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Vind

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2019, 07:41:18 PM »

Initially storms are fine but once you hit the slowest biggest fleet which can only travel at 7-13 (with navigation and 4 tugs) inside the storm troubles arise. Such fleet will be unable to reach destination without considerable loss of control and chain damage by storm and emergency burn cant be used with mothballed ships.
We need lightning conductor ship to attract all storm damage so fleet battleships will be safe.
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Hellya

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2019, 11:05:01 PM »

Quote
Maybe make hyperspace a strategic map where entering other peoples (including AI and Pirates) territory spawn a daunting fleet to run from or buy your freedom from.
This is hyperspace, not tall grass.

No it is a 2D game with a boring mechanic. If you don't like it purpose something useful.
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Serenitis

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2019, 12:20:42 AM »

emergency burn cant be used with mothballed ships
There's a reason industry skills are good. One of them removes the supply requirement from emergency burn. This skill should really be quite high up on your priorities if you're recovering ships for storage and later use.

I've never really been a fan of storms. They're just a padding mechanic dressed up as 'interesting'.
BUT, thier current state is vastly superior to how they used to be. Which was bad. Like if you hit one your entire fleet slows to a crawl, all your CR vanishes, and all your supplies follow within seconds as your fleet tries to recover. Which it can't because you're stuck in a storm.
And you could be in a storm without being in the area highlighed by the storm.
Hitting one was often a 'reload and try again' moment as recovering from that was frequently a huge chore, if it was possible at all.

Be thankful they are not nearly as awful any more. And indeed occaisionally useful now.
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bobucles

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2019, 06:16:42 AM »

No it is a 2D game with a boring mechanic. If you don't like it purpose something useful.
But I like hyperspace storms. The scaling factor is good, storms don't shred low level fleets and instead are more dangerous to large fleets. Getting pushed around by storms is also good, there is value to navigating around and hitting all the sweet spots to get maximum speed.

I do think that storms are perhaps not dangerous enough. Almost every time I'd rather travel directly through a storm and pay a handful of supplies to save a bucketload of fuel/time. I am okay with the current "mild storms" being rather ubiquitous, it's impossible to travel between worlds without hitting a dozen mild storms. I do think there should be "serious storms", rare patches that are extremely dangerous and should be completely avoided.

Perhaps extreme storms should be a random game event and not fixed locations at map generation? Every once in a while an area becomes at risk of super storms, thus posing a navigational hazard to everyone. Core systems might have "hyperspace stabilizers" or nav beacons or something similar that reduce the danger of a super storm spawning nearby. But for the most part, they're stuck with buckling down until the storm passes. The storm would also create trade opportunities, as the world will suffer greatly on trade until either the storm ends or a daring trader attempts to break through.

I would definitely enjoy if there was a way to direct storm damage to a particular ship. It'd be nice to travel with "lightning rod" support ships, which help protect your fleet and maybe even allow a safe passage through serious storms.

Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2019, 11:00:47 AM »

 I personally think that Hyperspace needs some more content to it right now, There isn't any real threat in it at the moment aside from crossing the path of a pirate armada on the way to raid a system early game or approaching pather infested systems, the most interesting thing that could happen in hyperspace is a bounty hunter being sent after you for failing a bar assignment.
 As of now it's mostly a way to travel between systems and storms are only slowing down that process, if there were more threats or interesting loot (a random kite or dram with barely anything in it in the middle of a huge storm doesn't count)  lurking in hyperspace then I think it could become very interesting and the storms could spice it up, right now all they do is slow down your travel time.
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Hellya

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2019, 12:08:50 PM »

No it is a 2D game with a boring mechanic. If you don't like it purpose something useful.
But I like hyperspace storms. The scaling factor is good, storms don't shred low level fleets and instead are more dangerous to large fleets. Getting pushed around by storms is also good, there is value to navigating around and hitting all the sweet spots to get maximum speed.

I do think that storms are perhaps not dangerous enough. Almost every time I'd rather travel directly through a storm and pay a handful of supplies to save a bucketload of fuel/time. I am okay with the current "mild storms" being rather ubiquitous, it's impossible to travel between worlds without hitting a dozen mild storms. I do think there should be "serious storms", rare patches that are extremely dangerous and should be completely avoided.

Perhaps extreme storms should be a random game event and not fixed locations at map generation? Every once in a while an area becomes at risk of super storms, thus posing a navigational hazard to everyone. Core systems might have "hyperspace stabilizers" or nav beacons or something similar that reduce the danger of a super storm spawning nearby. But for the most part, they're stuck with buckling down until the storm passes. The storm would also create trade opportunities, as the world will suffer greatly on trade until either the storm ends or a daring trader attempts to break through.

I would definitely enjoy if there was a way to direct storm damage to a particular ship. It'd be nice to travel with "lightning rod" support ships, which help protect your fleet and maybe even allow a safe passage through serious storms.

You don't navigate sweet spots, you let it push you around or you burn a turn of fuel or supplies. A handful of supplies is not accurate at all and I max travel skills out. Also fuel is way easier to come by and cheaper. All you have written without this item is that the scale is good.

They don't actually serve a use that can't be done another way that would be more engaging and fun. If that use is to be a money sink and damage ships then there are far more fun ways to do that. If it is to move your ship faster, you guessed it, there are better ways to do that. If it is frustrate and turn you fleet into a 1970's pinball machine, just go play a pinball machine with one paddle missing.

In my opinion they don't add logical value or fun to the game. If they added a strategic value, hidden explorations sites, any reason to enter a hyperspace storm, I would be all in. Right now they do nothing but make one mod mandatory, or you can slow boat around the cloud on extremely linear, immersion breaking "hyperspace lanes". There is no other way to explain those large linear cuts in the clouds.

Now, Grand Sector mod has change the hyperspace clouds and I am enjoying what they have done. Simply because the large cutout lanes are gone and I can choose to enter a cloud if I so want without going to the outside of the sector on a lane to avoid it. It actually gives me options to avoid a fleet or jump on a fleet, it goes the other way to.
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bobucles

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2019, 01:20:10 PM »

Quote
A handful of supplies is not accurate at all and I max travel skills out.
I've danced around in a storm with a petty 25x ship destroyer fleet. Damage from storms is around 5-10 supplies per hit, and there's a considerable cooldown between fleet hits.  Maybe modded or ultra huge fleets have real concerns, but I don't see anything wrong with calling it a handful of resources at that scale.

The scaling danger is great because it means that jumbo monster fleets aren't the end all of fleet design. Travelling light has its perks too, and being safer in hyperspace is a good perk to have. On the downside it limits what you can find in hyperspace. There can't be jumbo huge fleets waiting in the storms to ambush you, because they would also get obliterated by storms.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 01:21:46 PM by bobucles »
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