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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?  (Read 3884 times)

StormingKiwi

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2019, 08:47:23 PM »

They are just something that wastes a players time before he can have fun, be it battle, trading, colony management or simply outfitting your ships.

Agreed. Unfun and unnecessary.

Rather than have hyperspace storms, I'd prefer it if there were more ships patrolling hyperspace to interact with, interdicting each other, etc. 
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Igncom1

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2019, 01:21:30 AM »

I don't mind them, but they do get in the way.

I'd prefer them over empty hyperspace or having to play cat and mouse with pirate fleets every time I want to travel.
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Demonocolips

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2019, 08:30:14 AM »

honestly the hyperspace clouds are more annoying than anything. maybe if the player had some way to affect them. maybe since the game does have a basic traffic modeling system the clouds would be pushed out of the way for high traffic areas and the storms would be when the cloud models expand and cut off traffic in these lanes.
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Agile

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2019, 10:33:28 AM »

A good compromise is making the Gate mod part of the default game.

The gate mod lets you restart gates and use them to travel from point A to B. Early game you don't need this as you stick around core or go around exploring for credits / loot, but mid to late game when you got colonies and you really need fast travel, being able to use gates locally if they are restarted is a godsend.
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BTracer

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2019, 10:51:23 AM »

Starsector\starsector-core\data\config\settings.json

"minTerrainEffectMult":0,
"standardBurnPenaltyMult":0

After 100 hours following "Space Lanes" I figured my time was more valuable than this particular game mechanic, those settings make travelling long distances eminently more enjoyable while keeping the storms somewhat still interesting/dangerous.
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shoi

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2019, 08:38:52 PM »

Not really a pain or "fun" when you have a small fleet, seems to be the gripe people have comes when you are using a big one though. In that case, definately fun for the speed buff, until they knock you wildly off course resulting in you losing enough fuel to be unable to reach your destination and in the middle of nowhere before being pulled into a system full of [REDACTED]
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 08:40:29 PM by shoi »
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PrinzMegahertz

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2019, 12:08:22 AM »

I also think that hyperspace travel is the weakest part of the game because it offers nothing that provides a decent challenge or anything that can be handled by skill. It's just a pain in the ass. Imagine mound and blade where 90 percent of the map was full of swamps and your pathfinding would lead you directly through it, constantly forcing you to babysit your fleet.

Maybe there should be hyperspace roads using simpler gates that connect the core worlds creating sort of hyperspace roads that safely lead through storms. Storms in the periphery should be more severe and maybe contain some enemies that hide in them (specialised REDACTED maybe?)
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xenoargh

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2019, 12:45:13 AM »

I totally laughed at the Mount and Blade reference.

I actually made a mod at one point that made players get jumped by enemies if they hit Storms.  It was a little ridiculous and over-the-top, but kind of fun.

I think that generally, Hyperspace needs a lot more interesting mechanics and things to do (like, finding Pirate bases there, areas full of wreckage to loot, but watch out for [REDACTED] swarms, areas that suck you in to Bad Places, etc.), like Systems have now, and fewer areas covered by it-slows-you-down stuff. 
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2019, 12:54:13 AM »

Hyperspace Storms would make sense if they didn't increase or decrease fuel consumption
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sotanaht

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2019, 01:52:58 AM »

Hyperspace Storms would make sense if they didn't increase or decrease fuel consumption
I don't know if it would be more  fun, but it would definitely make more sense.  Going through deep hyperspace takes extra energy, and being pushed by storms adds energy. 

Lets say you have a fleet with max burn 10 that normally spends 100 fuel per day to travel at burn 10.  Going into deep hyperspace reduces your max burn to 6.  In this example, you should spend 100 fuel per day to move at burn 6 in deep hyperspace.  If you cut speed to burn 3 then you would spend 50 fuel per day, because you are moving at 50% of max speed.  Hitting a hyperspace storm accelerates you from to 30, so even though you are moving at 30, your engines are only pushing as much as they would if you were going 10 (or 6 if deep), so you still only spend 100 fuel per day.

The formula looks something like (Current speed/current max speed)*fuel per lightyear*maximum burn (on sheet)*sustained burn (x2 or x1 for none).  It could also be further modified to change the cost associated with sustained burn, so that it was more or less efficient.  Current max speed is determined without the "go dark" modifier or anything like it because those are equivalent to letting off the throttle while deep hyperspace is more like going uphill.
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TrashMan

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2019, 04:54:56 AM »

emergency burn anyone?

but seriuly on a burn 20 fleet an hiperspace storm will send you flying at burn 30, making then an esential tool of the avid capitan who needs to travel far from one place to anoter, they are only really dangerous in the early game were, geting hit by a chain, can make your ships lose too much CR and, because of that not being able to recover your fleet because of how dry the player is on the early game.

Early game? Even late game a storm can drain you CR like crazy and ea trough 1000 supplies in an instant.
I keep getting surprised at just how much supplies the storm can cost.
I'm running around with 5 mega-freighters and 2 mega fuel tankers b.t.w.
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Racionador

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2019, 06:43:39 AM »

I honesty think its a interesting feature, its annoying but its part of the realism, Space is not empty its full of little particles.
I think what should happen its a feature on a late game that once you upgrade your ship its more easy to avoid them or tke some form of advantage from them.
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Morrokain

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2019, 12:12:13 PM »

I really like hyperspace storms and clouds for the mechanics they bring, though I get that they can also be a source of frustration. I have definitely felt that at times. I really only get frustrated in larger fleets vs smaller ones. You have less control of where you will end up in large fleets- which would realistically make sense to me don't get me wrong. I actually tend to use them for movement boosts in small fleets.

Similarly, I seem to remember at some that a pirate armada that normally wouldn't have a chance of catching me used a storm to pretty much bounce on top of me. Not sure if that was pure coincidence or AI planned but it was certainly interesting.  :o

Maybe a leadership or technology skill could (for the player and Elite enemy officers) give a reduced volatility bonus fleetwide so they could operate more like a small fleet in a hyperspace storm. At lv 3 it could also reduce CR drain by a percentage relational to Solar Shielding that could even make it nothing if all ships have that hullmod equipped. I could see that being a considerable reason to go down a skill line.
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SapphireSage

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2019, 06:20:44 PM »

Hyperspace Storms would make sense if they didn't increase or decrease fuel consumption

Fuel usage is based on distance with the exception of burn speed over 20. This is why your fuel usage "lowers" when going through the clouds and "rises" (to a point) when hitting a storm. Speed > 20 is free and can only be achieved via storms or modding(donno if its still free fuel-wise if the max is raised).

emergency burn anyone?

but seriuly on a burn 20 fleet an hiperspace storm will send you flying at burn 30, making then an esential tool of the avid capitan who needs to travel far from one place to anoter, they are only really dangerous in the early game were, geting hit by a chain, can make your ships lose too much CR and, because of that not being able to recover your fleet because of how dry the player is on the early game.

Early game? Even late game a storm can drain you CR like crazy and ea trough 1000 supplies in an instant.
I keep getting surprised at just how much supplies the storm can cost.
I'm running around with 5 mega-freighters and 2 mega fuel tankers b.t.w.

Storms deal less CR damage for smaller, lighter fleets then they do to larger fleets with heavier ships. One more reason why it's more efficient to move around the fringes with a smaller, lighter fleet. Having 7 capital class freighters would definitely mean any storm will zero out a ship's CR when hit. It might be possible that Solar Shielding in tandem with Safety Procedures 2 could almost entirely negate it though.

Personally, as space clouds act as an effective speed boost allowing me to spend less time traveling and more time doing not-traveling-stuff I'm very much in favor of the current clouds. Especially when comparing them to the previous iteration of cloud storms where they would slow you to 2 burn and ravage your supplies until you lose.

Plus, recently in my campaign I've been having to run around constantly dealing with raids and invasions on my colonies and my commissioned faction's planets and it felt pretty good and fun to make use of the clouds to barely beat out the deadlines of arrival and intercept fleets before arriving after a quick errand to bomb out another faction's attempt to assemble a force before they could complete it after delivering a bar procurement on the other end of the core worlds to try and make money to build more security before the market size increases. I've been having a lot of fun riding storms to do more in less time.
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Plantissue

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Re: Hyperspace Storms: Unfun or Necessary?
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2019, 07:01:31 AM »

I wouldn't mind if storms simply slow down ships depending on fleet size, thus forcing people to go around the storms. Though I guess that's the reason why it was changed because it is annoying to move at snails pace. perhaps if storms simply didn't increase burn speed and only did CR draining storms, just to prevent the suprise pirates bouncing into you.
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