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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Missions Proximity  (Read 6261 times)

StormingKiwi

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Missions Proximity
« on: August 11, 2019, 02:45:33 AM »

New player here and Oh my gosh this game!

I have an issue, that all the missions spawn too far away from me to be truly useful... There are no missions in the core worlds, they're all scattered all over the outer rim, and I just had to abandon a game because I ran out of supplies whilst exploring.
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Flying Birdy

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2019, 02:56:56 AM »

The profitable missions (bounties, scanning, surveying) are all located in the middle of nowhere because otherwise, they will be too profitable.  Try to minimize your supply consumption and plan out your exploration trips. If you are going to go surveying, don't bring like 3 pristine condition cruisers. Instead, only bring the absolute bare minimum for defensive purposes and everything else should be really damaged cargo ships with low upkeep or ships with surveying hullmods built-in.
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goduranus

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2019, 03:01:19 AM »

Maybe the tutorial or some sort of bar dialogues should remind the player to take smaller and fuel efficient ships on exploration missions. This seems to be a hurdle that alot of new players face, running out of supplies or fuel in the outer regions and then starving to death :-\

StormingKiwi

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 04:13:37 AM »

I'm not talking about profitable missions, I'm talking about any missions at all. I'm used to games like Freelancer where the core game loop is set up early and set up well, even though those missions are low reward and low risk. There are no low risk missions, there are no missions at all. For a new player, it's a bit too much of a sandbox.
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outdated

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 04:37:14 AM »

I'm not talking about profitable missions, I'm talking about any missions at all. I'm used to games like Freelancer where the core game loop is set up early and set up well, even though those missions are low reward and low risk. There are no low risk missions, there are no missions at all. For a new player, it's a bit too much of a sandbox.

There's a bunch of exploration missions, those are all really easy, all you need is enough supplies to get to the objective and back. Then there are supply contracts, those are easy as well, but require some investment into a freighter and acquiring supplies. Then there are cargo haul missions, you can pick them up when visiting a bar, they are like supply contracts but you don't need to buy supplies yourself.
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SCC

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 04:40:11 AM »

There are procurement, bar trade and system bounty missions in the core worlds. You can also do some piracy there as well. The main reason missions spawn outside the core is to make ventures outside profitable for the inexperienced players and to make all players possibly find colony candidates, since it seems to be the default route of progression as of now.

warmaha

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 01:08:28 PM »

I'm not talking about profitable missions, I'm talking about any missions at all. I'm used to games like Freelancer where the core game loop is set up early and set up well, even though those missions are low reward and low risk. There are no low risk missions, there are no missions at all. For a new player, it's a bit too much of a sandbox.
I started playing lately too, so probably old players can say better ways to get started, but currently my favorite easy starting goes as ...
  • Get freighter and run those missions from bar where you don't have to buy materials, just move stuff around core systems and you get some money.
  • Use money to buy more and bigger freighters, so you get bigger hauling jobs and more money from those.
  • Also buy some combat ships and tanker(s) to support your fleet as needed.
  • When bored look where pirates are attacking and go shoot them.
  • At some point you might want to get Salvage Rigs, so you can get more out of salvaging.
  • After getting big enough fleet you are free to roam where you like and do what missions you like.

+ Build up your fleet slowly from multiple smaller ships to bigger ones and keep it at balance with bigger ships. Slowest ship determines fleet speed (burn).

Some point you might consider joining to faction, to get access to buy their ships and get some monthly income. But joining factions is optional and it's better to left after you are totally bored about hauling stuff in core world, because faction wars go on/off all the time and makes hauling a lot harder.
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Flying Birdy

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 01:26:27 PM »

I'm not talking about profitable missions, I'm talking about any missions at all. I'm used to games like Freelancer where the core game loop is set up early and set up well, even though those missions are low reward and low risk. There are no low risk missions, there are no missions at all. For a new player, it's a bit too much of a sandbox.

That huge, challenging, no handholding sandbox is half the fun! learning how to navigate an unforgiving atmosphere is what makes challenging games so rewarding! When you get to a point like us vets where we can make a million credits in less than an hour without any risk through a loop of  memorized strategies and trade routes, that's when the game stops being fun.
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StormingKiwi

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 02:27:14 AM »

That huge, challenging, no handholding sandbox is half the fun! learning how to navigate an unforgiving atmosphere is what makes challenging games so rewarding! When you get to a point like us vets where we can make a million credits in less than an hour without any risk through a loop of  memorized strategies and trade routes, that's when the game stops being fun.
I wouldn't say it is challenging to have a mission system which is completely reliant on RNG and is unfocused to the extent that Starsector's is - it's poor game design, and it's patronising to imply otherwise.


I think the concept you are looking for is memorising solutions to puzzles. Strategy games and puzzle games are different from one another.

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Flying Birdy

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 08:30:16 AM »

That huge, challenging, no handholding sandbox is half the fun! learning how to navigate an unforgiving atmosphere is what makes challenging games so rewarding! When you get to a point like us vets where we can make a million credits in less than an hour without any risk through a loop of  memorized strategies and trade routes, that's when the game stops being fun.
I wouldn't say it is challenging to have a mission system which is completely reliant on RNG and is unfocused to the extent that Starsector's is - it's poor game design, and it's patronising to imply otherwise.


I think the concept you are looking for is memorising solutions to puzzles. Strategy games and puzzle games are different from one another.

It really isn't reliant on RNG like you are saying. Most of the players on this forum are able to turn just about any exploration mission profitable. In fact, most of those exploration missions are considered quite profitable and easy to do; there is a reason exploration is the #1 recommended starting advice for new players. If you can't even figure that out, then its really not a matter of game design but rather an issue with your approach. You are either bringing too many ships, or not enough actual surveying ships for surveying missions, or just not bringing enough supplies. Have you tried calculating fuel use and supply need before you depart? Maybe you should do that and give it another shot before complaining about design.
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Plantissue

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 12:09:42 PM »

New player here and Oh my gosh this game!

I have an issue, that all the missions spawn too far away from me to be truly useful... There are no missions in the core worlds, they're all scattered all over the outer rim, and I just had to abandon a game because I ran out of supplies whilst exploring.
Generally speaking, you need fuel ships like the Dram or Phaeton to have enough fuel to explore with safely. Even if you have a fleet full of freighter or combat freighter ships, ignoring some oddities, the most you will be able to explore safely is 19 lightyears. There will be some missions within this range, even some within 10 lightyears but they are in the minority.

Otherwise the only mission available are missions from bars (unreliable), or procurement missions, which you can get more of by installing com sniffers I beleive. Those are all within the core worlds. If you are unwilling or unable to hunt bounties immediately, there is always a bar mission on Jangala to start you off. Bar mssion provide you with the cargo, plenty of time and always match your cargo capacity. So as your cargo capacity increases, so does the rewards increase.
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Agile

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 12:40:03 PM »

Here is some (advanced) newbie tips (oxymoron :P) that I learned after playing the game for a while.

1. At the bottom left you will see a fuel gauge that has your MAXIMUM BURN. This is how fast you can go based on your SLOWEST SHIP. Find this ship or ships under the Fleet tab (or press F) and hover over the ? mark under your ships and look at Maximum Burn.

For example, the large freighters are usually around 7-8 burn; this is bad. Because pirates and most fast frigates are a MINIMUM of burn 8, around 9 usually. You want to get 9 minimum burn so your emergency burn is 18 and sustained burn is 18.

This lets you escape from enemies, and go further with your fuel. VERY IMPORTANT FOR MAKING MONEY.

2. When you are in hyperspace at sustained burn (this is how you will travel 90% of the time), look to the right of your burn valve. You will see x fuel spent per day. This is IMPORTANT. Fuel is, at DEFAULT PRICE, 25 credits. You can calculate how much fuel (hence credits) your wasting per runs this way by clicking on the system you want to go to and it will tell you how many days it will take.

For example, lets say it takes 10 days to get to a system from your system.

To enter hyperspace, it takes 10 fuel because your running an medium fleet.

To exit hyperspace, it also takes 10 fuel.

At sustained burn, you spend 20 fuel per day.

20 x 10 + 20 = 220 fuel spent ONE WAY.

220 x 25 = 5,500 credits.

This is if you go a STRAIGHT LINE without hitting storms (which cost you extra supplies and require equations).

You don't have to do this level of calculations, but you can roughly guess how much it costs to go places and if a trading run is actually worth it, considering supply + fuel + random factors (piracy run in, storms, possible faction war).

3. A secret to getting better contracts / missions is your reputation and the /size of your fleet/. And by fleet, I mean your /LOGISTIC FLEET/. That means if you have 3 freighters and 2 tankers, with say, 4000 open cargo space and 3000 open fuel space, you will start getting contracts and missions that require the hauling of 1000 + items.

This is very important because of the next tip.

4. GET NAVIGATION AND LOADOUT DESIGN.

This is VERY important. Navigation lowers penalties in traveling AND gives you a ability called traverse jump; this drastically speeds up your traveling, lets you jump away from patrols / pirates, and lets you jump into systems through gravity wells instead of jump points. This is important in CORE worlds because most jump points are protected by big patrols.

Loadout design gives you 10 + op; this is important because of a hull mod called EFFECIENCY OVERHAUL. This mod lowers supply costs drastically, especially in larger fleets, which cuts your costs, which ups your profits.

Mix this in with large missions and you can make MASSIVE bank without even having a colony.

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StormingKiwi

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 03:42:27 PM »



It really isn't reliant on RNG like you are saying. Most of the players on this forum are able to turn just about any exploration mission profitable. In fact, most of those exploration missions are considered quite profitable and easy to do; there is a reason exploration is the #1 recommended starting advice for new players. If you can't even figure that out, then its really not a matter of game design but rather an issue with your approach. You are either bringing too many ships, or not enough actual surveying ships for surveying missions, or just not bringing enough supplies. Have you tried calculating fuel use and supply need before you depart? Maybe you should do that and give it another shot before complaining about design.
Why are you being patronising and antagonistic in your replies, out of interest? It's a bit of a turn off to a new player to be faced with a community which is so elitist and unwelcome.

Mission destination is reliant on RNG. If you've missed that, I doubt you play the game at all.

Starsector is described by the following, my emphasis added:

Quote
Starsector (formerly “Starfarer”) is an in-development open-world single-player space-combat, roleplaying, exploration, and economic game. You take the role of a space captain seeking fortune and glory however you choose.

The mission system doesn't offer missions which allow you to roleplay however you choose, it doesn't offer missions in proximity or that are relevant to the player. In terms of immersion, it doesn't feel like you are actually part of the world, because the missions available after the tutorial are so obviously unrelated to what you are doing or what you want to be.

I'm pretty adamant in my belief that Freelancer had a better mission system with its job boards and bars.

I appreciate the tips on profitability, but it isn't profitability of missions which are the issue - it's their relevance to me as a roleplaying player.
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Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 04:38:05 PM »

Missions being on the rim encourages exploration. Most mission types are about equally viable and almost all scale with the player. A single Dram half-loaded with fuel will get you anywhere in the sector and back in the early game, and that's something you can obtain in less than sixty seconds of gameplay from the campaign's start.
Why are you being patronising and antagonistic in your replies, out of interest? It's a bit of a turn off to a new player to be faced with a community which is so elitist and unwelcome.
It's most likely your own incredibly patronizing behavior.
Quote
I think the concept you are looking for is memorising solutions to puzzles. Strategy games and puzzle games are different from one another.
Quote
Mission destination is reliant on RNG. If you've missed that, I doubt you play the game at all.
Especially from a new player who seems to refuse to pick up what the game puts down, these are pretty patronizing statements, enough to doubt that you're really willing to entertain a real discussion.
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StormingKiwi

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Re: Missions Proximity
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 04:47:24 PM »

Missions being on the rim encourages exploration. Most mission types are about equally viable and almost all scale with the player. A single Dram half-loaded with fuel will get you anywhere in the sector and back in the early game, and that's something you can obtain in less than sixty seconds of gameplay from the campaign's start.
Why are you being patronising and antagonistic in your replies, out of interest? It's a bit of a turn off to a new player to be faced with a community which is so elitist and unwelcome.
It's most likely your own incredibly patronizing behavior.

Quote
Mission destination is reliant on RNG. If you've missed that, I doubt you play the game at all.
Especially from a new player who seems to refuse to pick up what the game puts down, these are pretty patronizing statements, enough to doubt that you're really willing to entertain a real discussion.

See their first post re: handholding.

My first post made it pretty clear that what the game puts down isn't actually that great. I am willing to entertain a real discussion, however posts that break down to "Get good, Scrub" aren't evidence of other members of this forum being willing to do the same. The problem isn't that some missions are on the rim, the problem is that every exploration mission is on the rim.

Exploration would be encouraged if exploration was cheap, but its not. The game doesn't encourage the player to drop into random systems, because there is no guarantee that actually exploring random systems will be a rewarding endeavour.

Hey, those are my first impressions. Take them for what they are.

Ah it's a community which is defensive about any and all critiques of the game, unless you belong to a treasured in-group.. I see...
Quote
I think the concept you are looking for is memorising solutions to puzzles. Strategy games and puzzle games are different from one another.
This isn't a patronising quote. It distinguishes strategy from puzzles. Read the thread again.

The second is in response to the sarcasm already displayed as a pattern of behaviour. Basically I have boundaries.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 04:49:51 PM by StormingKiwi »
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