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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Personal Contacts (08/13/20)

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Author Topic: Skills and Story Points  (Read 38381 times)

Megas

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #330 on: September 01, 2019, 10:13:53 AM »

Free Hardened Shields and Targeting Unit on my Paragon? Well, color me red cuz I'm fully erect

Now, I'm a min-max kinda guy, and if the bonus exp from permahulling ships is additive and applies to the player, then I can see myself fielding 10 kites in a redacted battle for that sweet 5 mil exp (going by current numbers). I'd rather said bonus was not present anywhere and, instead, the curve was worked out to not scale out of proportion, since having a text field tell you "THIS GOOD" already ruins any semblance of immersion.
Without current Loadout Design 3, ship probably needs one built-in mod to roughly break even.  With two, ship may come out ahead, but that price is paid per ship, not one-for-all like Loadout Design 3.

Paragon already has Advanced Targeting Core built-in, so it does not need to spend a point to integrate ITU.  Your point still stands for other ships and/or for other desirable but expensive hullmods.  I would not mind integrating Augmented Engines into Paragon or other burn 7 capital for burn 9.  Augmented Engines and Hardened Shields built-in would be nice for Paragon.
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SamusAran

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #331 on: September 02, 2019, 01:33:16 AM »

Created this account just to say this is genuinely dissappointing.
I strongly beleive you should be working towards making the game much more open ended by adding lots of scaling. The whole idea of starting new runs over and over will ultimately kill the replayability of this game. The 'runs' take long enough you get invested, this isn't really a roguelike as much as you may view it as one. The runs are too long and the game is too punishing if you don't load.

Gearing the game towards this idea of restarting just suggests there won't be enough content/story in the game to make a good sandbox and that's what you really need. I really hope you reconsider the direction of the endgame.

Suggestions
-dynamic "boss" ships that are up armed, high level captains and have unique skins
-dynamic "special" weapon generation, use a number generator and base it off player level
-dynamic "encounter" generation, more reasons, people, fleet types, places for stuff to happen, give to universe more life
-stretch your story legs with directed chaos, make the story fun in a more dynamic way. Instead of go there do this yay win, how about go here try to do something and depending on what happens the story goes in that direction. Have that direction affect things
-unlimited level cap with late game options opening up increased fleet and engagement sizes as well as simple things that let you specialize more. +speed +colony tax +signal damping +smuggle chance +manouv +vent speed and so on. Can also make enemy engagements much more unique. Opens up surprisng battles that need to be repeated. Means people can't just play super safe by avoiding dangerous ship designs.

Honestly the list goes on and on and your better off just adding *** loads of fun stuff and then balancing it based on feedback. People will have so much fun and can get really invested in their mad setups and long sector conquerin campaigns.
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #332 on: September 02, 2019, 08:25:21 AM »

Created this account just to say this is genuinely dissappointing.
I strongly beleive you should be working towards making the game much more open ended by adding lots of scaling. The whole idea of starting new runs over and over will ultimately kill the replayability of this game. The 'runs' take long enough you get invested, this isn't really a roguelike as much as you may view it as one. The runs are too long and the game is too punishing if you don't load.

Gearing the game towards this idea of restarting just suggests there won't be enough content/story in the game to make a good sandbox and that's what you really need. I really hope you reconsider the direction of the endgame.

Hi - I kind of see what you're saying, but I don't think the two necessarily go hand in hand; what you find this direction of skills suggests about the endgame isn't actually the case :) Just because different runs can be more, well, different, doesn't mean that the game is geared around restarting over and over!

Having more variety in how you can skill up is kind of a multiplier for content (it gives you more ways to experience it) but it's just generally a good thing for all kinds of content, whether it's the procgen of a roguelike, or an open sandbox of something like Skyrim, or anything in between.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #333 on: September 02, 2019, 09:51:55 AM »

For Carrier Group skill, is the bonus 20% or 50% if I took a 15 hangar fleet but only used five and left the rest of the hangars unequipped?
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #334 on: September 02, 2019, 10:04:26 AM »

Whether the bays are empty or not doesn't factor in, so it'd be 20%.
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FinetalPies

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #335 on: September 02, 2019, 08:25:05 PM »

I didn't read this whole thread so I hope this isn't too repetitive but I LOVE story points. The idea that they can help the game keep its flow is especially great.

I only got into this game recently (30 hours of gameplay over the last 4 days...) but I'm really excited for your future design ideas.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #336 on: September 04, 2019, 09:59:36 AM »

Will there be bonuses for purchasing all skills of an aptitude?
Will Alpha Core still grant non-production bonuses to structures like Patrol HQ/Space Port/Battle Stations or do story points do that now?
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #337 on: September 04, 2019, 12:12:46 PM »

I didn't read this whole thread so I hope this isn't too repetitive but I LOVE story points. The idea that they can help the game keep its flow is especially great.

I only got into this game recently (30 hours of gameplay over the last 4 days...) but I'm really excited for your future design ideas.

Thank you! Let's hope it pans out just like that :)

Will there be bonuses for purchasing all skills of an aptitude?

Not unless you count being able to wrap around and pick up more skills.

Will Alpha Core still grant non-production bonuses to structures like Patrol HQ/Space Port/Battle Stations or do story points do that now?

They still will, yeah. The story point options to improve industries are in addition to, not instead of.
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crowman

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #338 on: September 04, 2019, 08:03:05 PM »

I know asking for this is rude, but do you have a rough estimate on when the update might drop?
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Sundog

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #339 on: September 04, 2019, 08:53:36 PM »

I'd be surprised if it were released in the next few months. I don't think Alex has ever given an ETA for an update, and for good reason.

Inventor Raccoon

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #340 on: September 05, 2019, 07:36:51 AM »

For the updates I've been around for the release of (since 0.8) the only real indications of update ETA will be Alex's tweets - there's usually a period of playtesting that goes on for a few months that gives a hint that it's getting somewhat close to completion, and if he says he's making release candidates then the update is often only a few days away. That's my experience, anyway. Right now I'm guessing the update is a fair ways to go.
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Histidine

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #341 on: September 05, 2019, 08:19:48 AM »

Random story point uses I thought of:
  • Between engagement rounds, partially repair a ship and restore its CR, and reload missiles
  • Allow recovery of disabled/destroyed player ships even if the player retreated from the battle
  • Free restoration of a ship, or perhaps removal of a specific D-mod
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #342 on: September 05, 2019, 08:13:33 PM »

Speaking of story points.... what about letting players disassemble AI cores to get them? Gamma would net only 1, Beta 2 and Alpha 4. Or maybe 2/4/6?
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #343 on: September 05, 2019, 08:42:45 PM »

Random story point uses I thought of:
  • Between engagement rounds, partially repair a ship and restore its CR, and reload missiles
  • Allow recovery of disabled/destroyed player ships even if the player retreated from the battle
  • Free restoration of a ship, or perhaps removal of a specific D-mod

Hmm - made a note to think about these; still going through the "story points uses" list. A "repair your flagship" one was already on the list :)

Speaking of story points.... what about letting players disassemble AI cores to get them? Gamma would net only 1, Beta 2 and Alpha 4. Or maybe 2/4/6?

Generally speaking, I wouldn't want you to get story points from anything easily repeatable beyond XP; that goes against the grain of them being a resource with limited availability.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #344 on: September 05, 2019, 09:20:46 PM »

Speaking of story points.... what about letting players disassemble AI cores to get them? Gamma would net only 1, Beta 2 and Alpha 4. Or maybe 2/4/6?

Generally speaking, I wouldn't want you to get story points from anything easily repeatable beyond XP; that goes against the grain of them being a resource with limited availability.
I thought it was scarce but unlimited, is there a cap to story points a player can get per campaign?

I would also argue that 1: AI cores are rare and expensive enough to not cheapen story point gain, every AI core consumed for story point is lost opportunity for rep/credit gain from turning in, industrial improvements and stable point creation.
+
2: Since experience is nothing but information and story points come from experience, overclocking AI cores (and destroying them in the process) to generate novel yet useful information is very appropriate   :P
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 09:27:47 PM by SonnaBanana »
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