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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Skills and Story Points  (Read 14349 times)

Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #285 on: August 21, 2019, 12:08:00 PM »

Firstly, hi and happy to be a part of the community of starsector ^^
This is my first post and i'm not that good in english because i'm a french native speaker, so be nice with me please ^^'

Hi - welcome to the forum :)

.. and since everyone try to find a better name for them, why not Storytelling Point ? It's more accurate (in what you try to do with them) than story point and don't divaricate to much from the core meaning of the base name.

I guess it's more accurate, yeah, but it also sounds a bit awkward.

Secondly, after pondering a little, the skills system remind me a lot the one from starcraft 2 heart of the swarm, with Kerrigan able to remap her skill tree after each mission, and in the same game was present an idea that i loved : you unloked a third skill tree after one of the campagn mission. So why not unlock third option skills( one by one, not a full tree in one go) in the skill tree of starsector when the player meet a number of condition, like doing a certain story mission ?  The skill in question would be a new specialized skill extending the way you can play, no more powerful, but interresting ( I just let that here, i know that it's a pretty difficult idea to implement but maybe, who know, it will give you other idea Alex ^^)

That was a fun aspect of that skill system, yeah! I don't think it's quite a good fit here - imagine how much the UI would have to be restructured to support this! Also, the skills are designed to be set up in pairs...


Well, it's all i've to say for now. Any chance that you give us a little bit of information about what's going on with the skill and story point system now ? Like how goes the playtest and some of your idea ? (A little bit greedy here ^^')

Well, I'm still working through adding some of the story point uses, and got a bit sidetracked from it by needing to do some other stuff. Also, I wouldn't do much playtesting now - would make sense to wait until adding a couple more things into the game. Generally, I tend to do most of the playtesting as one of the last steps before a release.

Keep the good work, you're amazing, Alex, you and all the people and modder working for starsector ^^ (And i'm pretty literal and peremptory in my comment but don't take it like that, i respect your work and i know that i'm not the professional here ^^)

Thank you for your support :D (And, yeah, the modding community is really something.)
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SCC

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #286 on: August 21, 2019, 12:50:34 PM »

Does Impact Mitigation 3 damage dealt to armour reduction happen before damage is reduced by armour, or only after? I swear, I have asked you about this already, but I don't remember the answer.
I guess I have to add something to make it relevant to the topic... Are Impact Mitigation and Evasive Action both staying as vaguely armour-boosting skills, or are they getting rolled into one, or are they being made more different this time?

Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #287 on: August 21, 2019, 01:50:18 PM »

It's before reduction by armor.

Evasive Action is gone; some of its effects migrated to Helmsmanship.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #288 on: August 22, 2019, 10:49:00 PM »

Will there be hullmods which boost skills? Like hull mod which increase the maximum of Carrier Group from 6 to 8, or increase the number of Automated Ships in your fleet?
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #289 on: August 23, 2019, 11:54:35 AM »

Wasn't thinking about that - it's an interesting idea, hmm. I'm not sure how that'd really fit in nicely, though - seems like it would probably lead to you needing to haul around a few more ships as skill-boosters, and that doesn't seem too great.
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BringerofBabies

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #290 on: August 23, 2019, 01:12:11 PM »

It could be set up as "this ship benefits from the Carrier Group skill, but doesn't count towards the cap".
On a related note, does the Carrier Group skill count built in fighter bays? I assume it is just fighter bays on ships tagged as carriers, so that ships that happen to have their own fighter screen but aren't really carriers don't count, but I also wouldn't want Shepherds counting against my carrier cap if I am just using them as defensive escorts (although if I wasn't at the cap, I might want them to count, hmmm...)
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #291 on: August 23, 2019, 01:23:56 PM »

It could be set up as "this ship benefits from the Carrier Group skill, but doesn't count towards the cap".

Right - that I think would just mean "spam this ship"? Like, the cap exists for a reason, and anything that bypasses it is trouble.

On a related note, does the Carrier Group skill count built in fighter bays?

It counts them. Does mean that Shepherds have a bit of a downside when used purely for logistics, but, well, there's the Surveying Equipment hullmod and Salvage Rigs if an alternative is needed for this reason.
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TaLaR

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #292 on: August 23, 2019, 03:15:18 PM »

On a related note, does the Carrier Group skill count built in fighter bays?

It counts them. Does mean that Shepherds have a bit of a downside when used purely for logistics, but, well, there's the Surveying Equipment hullmod and Salvage Rigs if an alternative is needed for this reason.

Could converted and built-in bays at least count as half or less of proper fighter bay? I mean otherwise it becomes strict "don't use these ships if you have carrier based fleet".
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Wyvern

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #293 on: August 23, 2019, 04:13:03 PM »

Hmm, carrier skills + terminator drones...

You know what might be interesting as an alternative?  Have the Carrier Group skill only benefit (and only count) crewed fighters.  That'd also serve as a way to let Remnant LPCs trend towards being a bit stronger than normal fighters without being an automatic "Well, I'm putting Sparks and Luxes everywhere now."
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Megas

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #294 on: August 23, 2019, 05:54:52 PM »

I would dump Shepherd in a heartbeat.  I only bring Shepherd past early game for the campaign mods, but if it is a drain on carrier power, then it would get dumped!  I will just bring a combat ship with Surveying Equipment if I need more surveying badly.  As for more salvage, an annoying loss, but probably minor and an acceptable loss in the end.

Hmm, carrier skills + terminator drones...

You know what might be interesting as an alternative?  Have the Carrier Group skill only benefit (and only count) crewed fighters.  That'd also serve as a way to let Remnant LPCs trend towards being a bit stronger than normal fighters without being an automatic "Well, I'm putting Sparks and Luxes everywhere now."
If that happens, would be nice if Wasps and Mining Pods were beefed up too.
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SapphireSage

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #295 on: August 23, 2019, 06:35:45 PM »

Hmm, carrier skills + terminator drones...

You know what might be interesting as an alternative?  Have the Carrier Group skill only benefit (and only count) crewed fighters.  That'd also serve as a way to let Remnant LPCs trend towards being a bit stronger than normal fighters without being an automatic "Well, I'm putting Sparks and Luxes everywhere now."

I don't know if that would work out well with mods though. As far as I know, Sylphon and Tyrador have a significant contingent of drones for their fleets. It'd also reduces the usefulness of wings like Wasp drones unless they were improved to match, which can lead to a situation of "take this if no carrier skills, avoid this if carrier skills".

The built-in hullmod idea that was stated earlier that can't be used by player ever similar to ATC for Paragon would certainly help avoid the Shepard dilemma. I'd say you could make it so that while it doesn't count any fighter bays for the skill, it also doesn't gain any benefit citing the nature of the ship as a non-combat civilian. Issue with that though is it could be confusing as to why a ship like the shepard doesn't get any bonuses from your skill, esp. when there's a skill that apparently improves civilian combat abilities.
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TaLaR

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #296 on: August 23, 2019, 06:40:39 PM »

Do only fighter bays of deployed ships count, or everything in fleet? I mean I surely don't want to pay for something I don't use, so having reserve carriers or logistic ships with built-in wings would become a negative if it's the 2nd.
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #297 on: August 23, 2019, 06:48:05 PM »

Like with all the other fleetwide skills, it's everything in the fleet (that's not mothballed). Having reserve carriers not being an unmitigated positive is an intended feature of this, not a side-effect.

Logistics ships with built-in wings being undesirable is a bit of a side effect, but it doesn't seem too unreasonable, and there are ways to play around it. Will keep an eye on it, obviously.
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #298 on: August 23, 2019, 06:50:53 PM »

Hmm, carrier skills + terminator drones...

You know what might be interesting as an alternative?  Have the Carrier Group skill only benefit (and only count) crewed fighters.  That'd also serve as a way to let Remnant LPCs trend towards being a bit stronger than normal fighters without being an automatic "Well, I'm putting Sparks and Luxes everywhere now."

I don't know if that would work out well with mods though. As far as I know, Sylphon and Tyrador have a significant contingent of drones for their fleets. It'd also reduces the usefulness of wings like Wasp drones unless they were improved to match, which can lead to a situation of "take this if no carrier skills, avoid this if carrier skills".

Right, yeah, it could be a pretty big nerf to those kinds of fighters...


The built-in hullmod idea that was stated earlier that can't be used by player ever similar to ATC for Paragon would certainly help avoid the Shepard dilemma. I'd say you could make it so that while it doesn't count any fighter bays for the skill, it also doesn't gain any benefit citing the nature of the ship as a non-combat civilian. Issue with that though is it could be confusing as to why a ship like the shepard doesn't get any bonuses from your skill, esp. when there's a skill that apparently improves civilian combat abilities.

It's not a bad idea. Honestly, though, the simplest thing to do would be to just not count or affect built-in wings, if it came to that.
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TaLaR

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #299 on: August 23, 2019, 07:35:43 PM »

Like with all the other fleetwide skills, it's everything in the fleet (that's not mothballed). Having reserve carriers not being an unmitigated positive is an intended feature of this, not a side-effect.

Isn't it inconsistent? With direct combat ships player has some degree of freedom in choosing which to deploy (limited because we can't reassign officers), but having spare carriers debuffs ones deployed.

This also implies that I can't afford to have a carrier as one of ships reserved for player piloting. It was pointless to do under old system as well, since carriers need extra 9 skill points that direct combat ships don't use, and it didn't want to lock myself into piloting only carriers. Is making carriers mechanically not attractive to pilot intentional?
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