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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Skills and Story Points  (Read 91088 times)

Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #270 on: August 16, 2019, 12:41:27 PM »

It's +50% income base, +100% when fully maxed (alpha + story point). Assuming you build the most profitable industries first, commerce should produce more income than another industry pick when you're at 2 (base) and 3 (maxed) industries total.
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Grievous69

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #271 on: August 16, 2019, 12:52:19 PM »

Wait wait wait, so the base is now 2 industries and the max has been lowered to 3? Or am I reading that wrong
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Please don't take me too seriously.

Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #272 on: August 16, 2019, 12:55:08 PM »

By "base" and "maxed" I just meant the state of Commerce - whether it's giving +50% or +100% income. The number of industries is currently unchanged.
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Megas

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #273 on: August 16, 2019, 03:23:29 PM »

If I can just build refining or fuel processing or heavy industry and make as much if not more money, why would I build commerce?
When you want more money after you kill all of core worlds.  If exports are zero because everyone in core is dead, you probably want more income from your population.  Just because core is dead does not mean there are no more enemies to kill.

* * *

Moving on and changing the subject...

@ Alex: Has AI changed with regards to beams?

I just remembered an old mod that adding hard flux to beams, and when AI has under constant pressure from hard flux beams, it just sat there and overloaded when flux maxed out, leaving AI paralyzed for an easy kill.

I thought 500 or other low-range hard flux beams after that new hard flux beam hullmod would be a joke, until I remembered that AI (years ago) is incapable of defending against continuous hard flux beams.  If AI still behaves like that, paralyzing enemies with continuous hard flux beams could be a cheap way to win.
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #274 on: August 16, 2019, 03:50:29 PM »

Pretty sure it's changed; seems fine now, in any case.
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Sarissofoi

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #275 on: August 17, 2019, 04:07:00 AM »

Alex any chance that you consider adding option(disabled by start) to free skill point redistribution?
I mean its single player game and its already confirmed(if I am not wrong) that it will be possible to unlock it manually to get more level cap?

Also small suggestion. Not really on topic.
Can - if player put curse on space system - fleet aim for a Inner jump point not for a star gravity well?

Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #276 on: August 17, 2019, 08:48:53 AM »

Alex any chance that you consider adding option(disabled by start) to free skill point redistribution?

Honestly, probably not. I tend not to add options that change mechanics like that because they're liable to break (due to not being tested much), it's a bunch of work for a new set of mechanics, and it complicates code that now has to support two sets of mechanics instead of one. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, also - "here's a system, and here's some arbitrary way of navigating the system that it's totally not designed to support"?

its already confirmed(if I am not wrong) that it will be possible to unlock it manually to get more level cap?

Correct!

Also small suggestion. Not really on topic.
Can - if player put curse on space system - fleet aim for a Inner jump point not for a star gravity well?

Let me actually do that now. There, done. Not "inner" necessarily, just the closest one.
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Sarissofoi

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #277 on: August 18, 2019, 01:04:05 PM »

Quote
Let me actually do that now. There, done. Not "inner" necessarily, just the closest one.
That was fast.

ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #278 on: August 19, 2019, 10:19:29 AM »

What is the plural of Khopesh? This is important, please respond.
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #279 on: August 19, 2019, 11:14:23 AM »

Apparently it's "khopeshes"

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/khopesh
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Sinosauropteryx

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #280 on: August 20, 2019, 08:04:51 PM »

Hi, I'm new. This coming update looks fantastic.

I didn't see this addressed, though I may have missed it. Will permanent hull mods be found elsewhere in the sector? Are there other exceptional captains out there with the grease monkey knack, looking to push their rides over the top like the player? If the technology exists, it should be in demand and somewhat commonplace in the sector.

I imagine perma-hullmods to be something of a luxury and an enthusiast's pursuit, like the lowering kits of today. They could serve to give pirates some more personality, compared with organized fleets fielding the unmodified production standards, and to differentiate them from the Luddic Path (who otherwise resemble pirates with their quintuple-D-modded ships). Imagine defeating a lowly pirate and finding a Hound with a permanent makeshift Omni-shield. Or an Atlas Mk2 with surveying equipment and cargo space permanently installed. What would that say about the personality of its former captain? To me that could make for great emergent story moments, while only affecting gameplay in the most minor of ways.

But the bigger reason I bring it up is that the alternative, that you are the first and only captain in the sector to figure out how to perma-mod your vessel, is immersion-breaking. One of the many reasons I love this game is that your character can and must act within the "physics" of the game world, is subject to the same forces and limitations. He doesn't have special powers, but he has the gumption to leverage common resources into uncommon influence. And I think restricting perma-modding to player vessels would be inconsistent with that standard.
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #281 on: August 20, 2019, 08:14:18 PM »

Hi - Welcome to the forum!

It wasn't addressed in the post, but it came up I think once or twice in the comments here - not that I fault you for not reading all of it through :)

As of right now, there's a small chance to find perma-mods on recoverable derelict ships found on the fringes of the Sector. I don't want to make these mods particularly common because if they are, then the player can simply acquire ships with them instead of spending story points on them, so it kind of defeats the purpose of the mechanic.

So, to me, having a small chance of finding these on derelicts (and possibly, very occasionally, in some other circumstances) is a good balance of giving a nod to "others can do this" while not having it be so common as to make the mechanic a waste of points.
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Sinosauropteryx

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #282 on: August 21, 2019, 12:20:16 AM »

That sounds like a good compromise and I'm glad the question was already on yours and others' radars. Thanks for the reply!
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Erebe

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #283 on: August 21, 2019, 03:30:19 AM »

Firstly, hi and happy to be a part of the community of starsector ^^
This is my first post and i'm not that good in english because i'm a french native speaker, so be nice with me please ^^'

First things first, i find the Story Point mechanic verry refreshing and full of potential, even more if modders are able to create there own event where you can use them in relation with wath there mod do (I look at you Nerelexin ^^), and since everyone try to find a better name for them, why not Storytelling Point ? It's more accurate (in what you try to do with them) than story point and don't divaricate to much from the core meaning of the base name.

Secondly, after pondering a little, the skills system remind me a lot the one from starcraft 2 heart of the swarm, with Kerrigan able to remap her skill tree after each mission, and in the same game was present an idea that i loved : you unloked a third skill tree after one of the campagn mission. So why not unlock third option skills( one by one, not a full tree in one go) in the skill tree of starsector when the player meet a number of condition, like doing a certain story mission ?  The skill in question would be a new specialized skill extending the way you can play, no more powerful, but interresting ( I just let that here, i know that it's a pretty difficult idea to implement but maybe, who know, it will give you other idea Alex ^^)

Thirdly, about perma-hullmod. I love the idea, it give the player a way to put personnality into ship. Yes, some may say that players will always put the most costly mod. I don't think so, because this is a minmaxer way of reflection, and we aren't all minmaxer here. True, there will allways exist people who try to make the most of what they have (sometime, i'm one of them) but it's not the majority of the player (i think). But to continue about perma-hullmod, i've seen a really good idea in the form of specific hullmod who don't exist in stadart version, only in perma-hullmod. That's fantastic, because it give pllayers again another layer of customisation to have a ship with personnality. Moreover, those "legendary" hullmod can be a really good treasure-hunt starter, like synchrotron an pristine nanoforge, with the advantage over those two items that there is more than two of these unique hullmod.
Now about ship in AI fleet who are perma-hull modded. You say that you don't want the player to bypass the use of Story Point to have ship with perma-hullmod, but i really don't see what's the problem here. Those ship are unique ship difficult to acquire. Yes, don't put them commonly, but have them exist in special bounty against pirate of reputation, have them in fleet of the different factions who are known through the sector BECAUSE of the ship and her captain, because this is a good way to put lore and immersion (people talk about them in bar, faction warn you when you're commitioned, a neutral fleet come to talk to you to warn you that THIS fleet is in the sector and that they are returning home because they don't want to die etc...), and it open the path to the player to hunt down and battel those fleet if they want THE ship. Heck, you can even put legendary hullmod on those ship, and make the removable for the cost of a Story Point, to be able to repurpose the unique hullmod on another ship.

Well, it's all i've to say for now. Any chance that you give us a little bit of information about what's going on with the skill and story point system now ? Like how goes the playtest and some of your idea ? (A little bit greedy here ^^') Keep the good work, you're amazing, Alex, you and all the people and modder working for starsector ^^ (And i'm pretty literal and peremptory in my comment but don't take it like that, i respect your work and i know that i'm not the professional here ^^)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 03:38:45 AM by Erebe »
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Alex

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Re: Skills and Story Points
« Reply #284 on: August 21, 2019, 12:08:00 PM »

Firstly, hi and happy to be a part of the community of starsector ^^
This is my first post and i'm not that good in english because i'm a french native speaker, so be nice with me please ^^'

Hi - welcome to the forum :)

.. and since everyone try to find a better name for them, why not Storytelling Point ? It's more accurate (in what you try to do with them) than story point and don't divaricate to much from the core meaning of the base name.

I guess it's more accurate, yeah, but it also sounds a bit awkward.

Secondly, after pondering a little, the skills system remind me a lot the one from starcraft 2 heart of the swarm, with Kerrigan able to remap her skill tree after each mission, and in the same game was present an idea that i loved : you unloked a third skill tree after one of the campagn mission. So why not unlock third option skills( one by one, not a full tree in one go) in the skill tree of starsector when the player meet a number of condition, like doing a certain story mission ?  The skill in question would be a new specialized skill extending the way you can play, no more powerful, but interresting ( I just let that here, i know that it's a pretty difficult idea to implement but maybe, who know, it will give you other idea Alex ^^)

That was a fun aspect of that skill system, yeah! I don't think it's quite a good fit here - imagine how much the UI would have to be restructured to support this! Also, the skills are designed to be set up in pairs...


Well, it's all i've to say for now. Any chance that you give us a little bit of information about what's going on with the skill and story point system now ? Like how goes the playtest and some of your idea ? (A little bit greedy here ^^')

Well, I'm still working through adding some of the story point uses, and got a bit sidetracked from it by needing to do some other stuff. Also, I wouldn't do much playtesting now - would make sense to wait until adding a couple more things into the game. Generally, I tend to do most of the playtesting as one of the last steps before a release.

Keep the good work, you're amazing, Alex, you and all the people and modder working for starsector ^^ (And i'm pretty literal and peremptory in my comment but don't take it like that, i respect your work and i know that i'm not the professional here ^^)

Thank you for your support :D (And, yeah, the modding community is really something.)
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