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Author Topic: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League  (Read 7591 times)

Inhilicon

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Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« on: June 25, 2019, 12:24:39 AM »

I was just wondering if these two factions will get more attention down the line. In my experience, I don't feel compelled to join or help them in any way, as they have nothing particularly unique about them. I'm more willing to oppose them, for not being interesting. Will they get their own variants/paintjobs? Maybe a built-in hullmod to differentiate them from other factions? If all else fails, is there a mod that does this?

Pirates have their ghetto ships but with rad paintjobs and sometimes altered weapon mount types.
Tri-Tachyon use hi-tech ships, some of them appealing TT variants (like for the Brawler).
Luddic Church & Path have paintjobs and the latter has a distinct playstyle due to certain hullmods.
Hegemony have very interesting ship variants with distinct paintjobs.
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Reign_of_Error

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2019, 12:35:46 AM »

The Diktat and the League are the place to get mid-line battleships, e.g. Conquest.

For more flavour, I can recommend the Ships and Weapons pack (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11018.0). It has rare  Lion's Guard variants of a number of ships, e.g. Eagle. These have paint job in the Sindrians' violet and the perk of free solar shielding, because of Sindria's location right in its system-star's corona. The mod is overall very well-balanced and mature.
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SCC

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2019, 12:45:50 AM »

Luddic Church isn't very distinctive. It's more like recoloured Hegemony, without the ship variety. I'd like Diktat to get all the high-tech warships, so that we have a place we can get Medusas or Auroras from, as Tri-Tachyon is very unreliable in that regard.

Hrothgar

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2019, 02:51:35 AM »

Luddic Church got in some mods some love. Like Cathar class heavy cruiser- proper cruiser made from Collosus freighter , some modification to ships like Tarsus, made into missile boat or more.
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Inhilicon

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2019, 04:39:33 AM »

The Diktat and the League are the place to get mid-line battleships, e.g. Conquest.

For more flavour, I can recommend the Ships and Weapons pack (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11018.0). It has rare  Lion's Guard variants of a number of ships, e.g. Eagle. These have paint job in the Sindrians' violet and the perk of free solar shielding, because of Sindria's location right in its system-star's corona. The mod is overall very well-balanced and mature.

I tried that mod for a little bit along with Nexerelin (while I was still completely new to the game) but I've gotten wary of larger mod-based content like ships or weapons as they've been either overpowered or underpowered in the experiences (mods for other games) that I've had. I assume there's no possibility of having -just- the new paintjobs? I didn't see any particularly convincing proof as to why the authors think it's balanced. Then again, there's also the standard mindset that haunts any kind of opinion-heavy platform which dictates that negative criticism is unwelcome, so maybe no one is willing to speak up about that issue in particular. I don't know.
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Hrothgar

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 04:43:29 AM »

Well, most of ships in S/W pack are not OP. They're pretty decent in balance. For just luddic paintjob you need to get a Luddic Enchancement Mod, which basically give Ludd a slightly changed low tier ships and paintjobs for those not changed.
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Reign_of_Error

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 04:52:12 AM »

I didn't see any particularly convincing proof as to why the authors think it's balanced. Then again, there's also the standard mindset that haunts any kind of opinion-heavy platform which dictates that negative criticism is unwelcome, so maybe no one is willing to speak up about that issue in particular. I don't know.

Well, "balance" is bound to be subjective. I see quite a few posts here and on reddit describing S&W as well-balanced. I don't recall seeing any where criticism on this point got shouted down. My recent experience is that it adds ships and weapons that integrate well with vanilla and have uses, with appropriate costs, without being over-powering. YMMV, but if you only wanted the paint job, that's not the mod for you.
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Hrothgar

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2019, 05:18:12 AM »

Also "I dont like mods, because i once played in game with mod 2000 years ago and it was awfull" is like saying : "I did not like ice cream because i once ate one and it was awfull, all ice cream are bad then".

Generalisation is a crime.
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Euphytose

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 05:59:31 AM »

I've played the game a lot both with and without mods. I much preferred the experience with mods, but I can understand a vanilla experience, at least gameplay wise.

Mods that add new graphics, planet types, etc... Are very good without altering anything core to the game. I would love a mod that creates tons of new paint jobs.
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Hrothgar

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2019, 06:28:14 AM »

Many mods here offer paintjob for ships existing but added with mod. I suggest you install a Unknown Skies mod. It's add a different planets and skins for them.
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Megas

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2019, 07:09:15 AM »

Midline seems to be the most common across factions that are not Pirates and some form of Ludd.

Hegemony used to be the low-tech faction.  Now it is a mix of low-tech and midline (plus Wolf).
Tri-Tachyon was all about high-tech.  Now it is high-tech plus some midline.  Probably has the most blueprints exclusive to it.
Luddic Church is just low-tech.  Its only specialty is Perdition wings.  Its capital of choice is the Legion.
Luddic Path and Pirates use hacked hulls and are distinctive.  (Pathers need an industry somewhere for its unique stuff.)

The rest favor midline, including Independents.  Conquest blueprints can be nicked from Independents too.  They also have phase ships, but do not use them much.

Diktat, League, and Independents are very similar, although Diktat and League have some blueprints Independents do not have.

As for mods and stuff, I do not have much time for the game, and I prefer no mods.  I would make an exception if I made a mod for Starsector, but I doubt I will make one.

P.S.  I would not want to join Diktat and League because I get sick of endless expeditions from them.  They are the reason why I cannot have more than a size 3 or 4 farming colony until I am strong enough to kill any endgame threat.  Tri-Tachyon sends expeditions too, but they are significantly weaker than the other two meddling bullies.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 07:12:36 AM by Megas »
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namad

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2019, 07:41:59 AM »

The Diktat and the League are the place to get mid-line battleships, e.g. Conquest.

For more flavour, I can recommend the Ships and Weapons pack (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11018.0). It has rare  Lion's Guard variants of a number of ships, e.g. Eagle. These have paint job in the Sindrians' violet and the perk of free solar shielding, because of Sindria's location right in its system-star's corona. The mod is overall very well-balanced and mature.

I tried that mod for a little bit along with Nexerelin (while I was still completely new to the game) but I've gotten wary of larger mod-based content like ships or weapons as they've been either overpowered or underpowered in the experiences (mods for other games) that I've had. I assume there's no possibility of having -just- the new paintjobs? I didn't see any particularly convincing proof as to why the authors think it's balanced. Then again, there's also the standard mindset that haunts any kind of opinion-heavy platform which dictates that negative criticism is unwelcome, so maybe no one is willing to speak up about that issue in particular. I don't know.


You're just wrong. The starsector modding scene is WAY more advanced than you seem to think. The linked S&W pack is considered vanilla balanced. MANY MANY MANY mods are considered to be NOT balanced, but tons of people have posted about it. Things like borken/neutrino are seen in some ways as "boss factions" now that knight's aren't a choice anymore. Additionally things like DME/DA/shadowyard/brdy are seen as a bit overpowered (at least imo, others might disagree). Sometimes mod factions are seen as potentially underpowered, but also they're sometimes underpowered on purpose (junk/pack/kadur).

Then you have things like underworld which are stronger than vanilla but what they do is take something a lot of people found to be underpowered in vanilla and bring it up to a more balanced state.

There used to be some good mod reviews out there about balance, like here: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11001.0
I'm not currently aware of any good megathread for mod reviews but if you read each mod's lengthy discussion thread you'll seen a ton of discussion about balance in all of them. So you might be right, that it might be hard for you to know which mods to use that will achieve the balance you want. You're just wrong that those mods don't exist though, and you're wrong that the discussion about balance isn't occurring. S&W pack is one of the most universally beloved, simple, well balanced mods out there though.
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Inhilicon

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2019, 11:12:48 AM »

The Diktat and the League are the place to get mid-line battleships, e.g. Conquest.

For more flavour, I can recommend the Ships and Weapons pack (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11018.0). It has rare  Lion's Guard variants of a number of ships, e.g. Eagle. These have paint job in the Sindrians' violet and the perk of free solar shielding, because of Sindria's location right in its system-star's corona. The mod is overall very well-balanced and mature.

I tried that mod for a little bit along with Nexerelin (while I was still completely new to the game) but I've gotten wary of larger mod-based content like ships or weapons as they've been either overpowered or underpowered in the experiences (mods for other games) that I've had. I assume there's no possibility of having -just- the new paintjobs? I didn't see any particularly convincing proof as to why the authors think it's balanced. Then again, there's also the standard mindset that haunts any kind of opinion-heavy platform which dictates that negative criticism is unwelcome, so maybe no one is willing to speak up about that issue in particular. I don't know.


You're just wrong. The starsector modding scene is WAY more advanced than you seem to think. The linked S&W pack is considered vanilla balanced. MANY MANY MANY mods are considered to be NOT balanced, but tons of people have posted about it. Things like borken/neutrino are seen in some ways as "boss factions" now that knight's aren't a choice anymore. Additionally things like DME/DA/shadowyard/brdy are seen as a bit overpowered (at least imo, others might disagree). Sometimes mod factions are seen as potentially underpowered, but also they're sometimes underpowered on purpose (junk/pack/kadur).

Then you have things like underworld which are stronger than vanilla but what they do is take something a lot of people found to be underpowered in vanilla and bring it up to a more balanced state.

There used to be some good mod reviews out there about balance, like here: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11001.0
I'm not currently aware of any good megathread for mod reviews but if you read each mod's lengthy discussion thread you'll seen a ton of discussion about balance in all of them. So you might be right, that it might be hard for you to know which mods to use that will achieve the balance you want. You're just wrong that those mods don't exist though, and you're wrong that the discussion about balance isn't occurring. S&W pack is one of the most universally beloved, simple, well balanced mods out there though.

Jeez. Thanks for trying to invalidate my entire sum of experience with mods over my entire life. Anyway, I've already looked through all the pages of the ship/weapon pack for any quips about balance. There are very few; barely any. Ships that were mentioned include names like Aurora, LC's Cathedral and Excelsior. Some people voiced concerns over the latter but such SPOOKY negative feedback was promptly (and unsurprisingly) denied. Where's this "discussion thread"? I honestly can't find any such thing.

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Alex

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 11:17:37 AM »

As far as the Diktat, I'll just say we've got some specific and fairly expansive plans for that, but as to the details, I'm afraid it's a  :-X
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Wyvern

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Re: Sindrian Diktat & Persean League
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2019, 12:36:23 PM »

Jeez. Thanks for trying to invalidate my entire sum of experience with mods over my entire life. Anyway, I've already looked through all the pages of the ship/weapon pack for any quips about balance. There are very few; barely any. Ships that were mentioned include names like Aurora, LC's Cathedral and Excelsior. Some people voiced concerns over the latter but such SPOOKY negative feedback was promptly (and unsurprisingly) denied.
For most mod authors, vanilla balance is a goal; whether it's met or not can vary - but there are a lot of mods where, if you use it and can identify a way in which the ships are over or under powered, the author will consider that to be valuable feedback and make adjustments.

As for the specific ships you listed... I'd just like to note that the Aurora is a vanilla cruiser.  If someone's claiming that a ship is overpowered for being as dangerous as an Aurora, well...

And, when you get down to it, that shines a lot of light on what tends to happen when someone wanders in saying "XYZ ship is OP, nerf plz!" - they base it on something like "Well, I can take this cruiser into the simulator, and have it beat down all three vanilla Dominators at once!"
Here's the thing: I can put together a 100% vanilla Aurora variant that can do that.  I've even managed some variants that can sometimes pull that off under autopilot.  If I'm willing to accept taking hull damage along the way, I can put together a 100% vanilla Dominator variant that can do that.  Being able to win that fight isn't (necessarily) an indicator of a balance problem.  In fact, a heavy cruiser that -can't- win that fight is probably -underpowered-.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.
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