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Author Topic: Kitting a Conquest  (Read 8111 times)

Retry

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2019, 11:41:56 AM »

Does the Conquest usually inspire such heated arguments? I've stopped reading the thread cause it just devolved into mind-numbing number crunching.
Yes every single *** time. Doubly so if Lucky33 is involved, he is the top troll/bait artist on these forums.
Now this is something we can all agree on!
I would agree too.
Put me down in the "agreement" camp too.

I'm not overly impressed with Hellbore myself, with its slow speed and low fire rate it's so easy to shield-flicker the round away (or an unlucky collision with a hostile Talon), even if it would theoretically maul armor on a good hit.  And AI seems to like that shield flicker.

I like the Storm Needler, bit short range for me though and not a whole lot of platforms that can handle the flux (Conquest being the exception in Vanilla).

If I use a Conquest I usually do 2x Gauss Rifles on one side + flak for long-range artillery and 2x Mjolnirs on the other for closer-ranged brawling.
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Vind

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2019, 08:59:07 PM »

Using 2xGauss 2xHVD and 2xHellbores conquest - AI prefers to "tank" hellbore shots for some reason with expected results. Maybe because gausses/HVDs raise flux before first slow hellbore shot arrives. This AI oversight makes this build extremely useful vs pirate raids.
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Lucky33

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2019, 09:54:39 PM »


I'm not overly impressed with Hellbore myself, with its slow speed and low fire rate it's so easy to shield-flicker the round away (or an unlucky collision with a hostile Talon), even if it would theoretically maul armor on a good hit.  And AI seems to like that shield flicker.


Thats a theory. Which was debunked by the tests above. For the most time while shield flickering in the nearly overloaded state AI will let Hellbore shots through. They get blocked only in the early stage while AI has flux. And at minimal HP when AI raises shield no matter what.
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Megas

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2019, 10:57:18 AM »

Since this topic is not too dead yet to qualify as necromancy...

I started playing around with loadouts since my Mark IX and HAG loadout lost steam against the capital spam, and did not do well against Remnant's Radiants.

I needed a loadout that was effective against big things and that the AI could use (since I pilot Paragon flagship).

I tried Storm Needler again and I liked it.  Melts shields and wrecks things fast when paired with Heavy Mortars.  I was eager to send it at Radiants only to discover a problem... default (Steady) AI refused to get close enough to fire Storm Needlers, and got picked off by snipers or mobs.  All of Storm Needlers' DPS... wasted because AI was too cowardly to get in close and wreck stuff.  Later, I tried it against SIM Onslaught, and AI Conquest kept running away from TPCs and Annihilator spam.  It just would not get close enough to fire those needlers!

Next, Gauss and tac laser spam with Advanced Optics and IPDAI, for 1200 range attacks.  If the AI was cowardly, then maybe it can attack while being a coward.  Problem:  Steady AI just ran further away just beyond Gauss range and barely fired guns at all, even if it outranged the enemy!  Also useless.

Next, dual Mjolnir.  No more flux intensive than Storm Needlers, and Steady AI hovered at the correct range to fire them!  No problem, right?  Wrong.  It did not punch through shields (of SIM capitals) quickly enough.  When it did, it was reasonably effective.  Still, needing to wait a while before shields drop while firing flux intensive weapons is not good enough when the likes of Radiant (or other battleships) and friends win the flux war first.

So... Gauss and Storm Needler are useless because AI just would not fight.  Mjolnir alone was not enough.  That means if I want kinetic for anti-shield that steady AI can use competently with other weapons, then I need to use Mark IX, even if it is mildly inaccurate.  And I need more attack power from the medium ballistics.

After experimenting with 1000 range weapons like Heavy Mauler, HVD, and Ion Beam, I noticed AI hovered a bit further away more to interfere with effective use of 900 range weapons.  Thus, those are out if I want to rely on 900 range weapons for the heavy hitting.  Weapon range has to be higher than 700 too because AI could not (get close enough to) use the ultimate shield-killer Storm Needler.  With no 900 range medium weapons, I needed 800 range, which meant either Heavy Autocannon or Heavy Needler.  Since accuracy can be a problem on unskilled AI ships, not to mention I need high DPS and good efficiency, I settled with Heavy Needler for medium mount.

So... abandoning dual flak in mediums, I tried the following in the ballistics:  Mark IX on the front heavy, Hellbore on the rear heavy, and heavy needlers in both mediums.  Medium energy got filled with more burst PD to pick up the PD slack.  I tried in it the simulator, and mostly unskilled AI wrecked Onslaught.  Lots of kinetic DPS to blow through shields... that the AI got close enough and fired... even the 800 range Heavy Needlers!  And Hellbore blows big holes in armor.  Satisfied with anti-capital performance, I tried it on a mob of smaller ships.  It did not work as well (as the Mark IX, HAG, and dual flak combo) due to overreliance of kinetic to counter big ships like Radiants.  Still, if I need Conquest for anti-capital duty, this is a promising loadout.  But if I need an all-rounder, this is not good enough.

Next, I replaced Hellbore with Mjolnir, and removed the heavy needlers in the rear (for an empty medium ballistic on both sides) for one heavy needler per side instead of two (between Mark IX and Mjolnir), due to flux use and needing more OP.  I tried it in the simulator.  It was not quite as optimized for anti-capital like the last loadout, but it was effective enough.  It held up much better against a group of small ships.  With the extra OP, I can use heavy burst PD, get more hullmods to improve flux stats (Flux Distributor or Stablized Shields), or give up the extra burst PD in medium mounts and get Expanded Missile Racks for more Locust spam.

I have yet to try my new loadouts against the Remnants, or multi-capital deserter fights for that matter.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 11:45:38 AM by Megas »
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Lucky33

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2019, 11:19:58 AM »

Remnants have ECM. Lots of it. You need to go full ECM yourself just to keep up with them and not let them have a range bonus.

Also they have very effective shields and, typically, its way more effective to delegate shield-bashing to missiles and fighters. Because zero flux.
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From a Faster Time

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2019, 07:19:28 AM »

Here is the general idea


Here is what I used for for flexible fun.
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Schwartz

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2019, 08:03:54 AM »

Got a chuckle out of me with that single Harpoon there.
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Megas

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2019, 09:51:16 AM »

Tried the loadouts again with different behavior.  Storm Needlers work under Aggressive or Reckless AI.  Steady is too cowardly for Storm Needler loadout to be effective.  Tried Gauss and Tactical Lasers again with more aggressive AI.  It got too close to the enemy, so that is still useless.

I would need to fire one of my level 20 officers if I want to use Aggressive Conquest with Storm Needlers.  I do not want to switch faction behavior just for one ship without an officer.
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Chronosfear

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2019, 10:05:27 AM »

Got a chuckle out of me with that single Harpoon there.

Yeah, I would do it just to not have to manually aim any weapon. So I think that's the use of that one, too
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Gandhi

Schwartz

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2019, 10:35:07 PM »

Speaking of which.. the 'hit number above 5 to deselect weapon groups' thing needs to come back.
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Thaago

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2019, 12:51:26 AM »

Isn't that still a thing? I know there was a mod to add an empty group 6 as well.
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SCC

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Re: Kitting a Conquest
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2019, 01:16:56 AM »

I thought that I would share my personal fit, too. I don't know how well does the AI use it, but I don't like letting the AI use Conquests anyways.
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