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[akrammon]

Hi everyone,

I just bought this game a few days ago. First of all, I have to say it is just frakking awesome! I am having the best time with it!!

A bit of background:
So I am in my first vanilla playthrough, and I think I managed to figure out how to do many things that I have encountered, though almost certainly not all (yet ). One of the big realizations was parking the ships that I am not using. I know this must be super simple to you guys but I am a first time player who read a bit here and there, but not any comprehensive guides 
First, I was gradually building up towards 2 hammerheads, 2 enforcers, 2 condors and 2-3 frigates (Wolves I think) as support, among some worse ships + tanker or cargo ships. Sooner or later I realized that I was pretty slow with 7 or 8 burn levels, and had trouble turning a profit with exploration missions.

So, I narrowed it down to: 1*enforcer for punching power, 1*condor because I feel fighters are OP, 3-4 Wolves because they alone seem pretty good, let alone when grouped around the bigger ships. A key factor was to select ships that have 9 or 10 burn so I can get 10 burn with the ability from the Technology tree. It went pretty well tbh, moving around quickly, turning a profit with non-combat missions and successfully avoiding or defeating pirates.

As I bumped into problems (not enough fuel to go where I want, can't take all the loot) I expanded the fleet and now I also have 5 Mules and 3 Cerberus Freighters, with 2 Drams, a Buffalo and a Shepherd Drone Tender.

The problem:
I kinda feel like I pack too much of a punch for an exploration fleet. I am still fast, but the expeditions seem costly. They are still profitable though. I chose the Mules over the (effectively) unarmed Buffalos because they seem to be able to defend themselves AND carry beyond their own weight. But then again, I don't deploy them when I fight small random fleets or automated defenses in far-away systems because it is overkill. And when I was occasionally caught by a larger pirate fleet, once again I don't deploy them because I feel for their safety (maybe later on as reinforcements). I guess I have the feeling that my exploration fleet is not very well optimized, but I cant really grasp why.
(The Cerberus freighters I looted from places, they seem to be OK tho I will probably get rid of them at some point).

At the same time I feel like if I really wanted to pack a punch in combat to a pirate fleet with cruisers or a base, I wouldn't really now what was a good combo of ships to bring along.

I have heavily expanded my fleet since then, always parking them at a Storage. Usually from salvaging, but sometimes shopping Condors because I have this feeling that fighters are really good (who knows, maybe I am wrong... ).

So, the question:
From the below ships, which ships would you recommend a beginner takes on
- exploration missions? (surveying, derelicts, salvaging...)
- combat missions? (these can be multiple fleets based on whether it is a smaller pirate fleet or a base I guess?)

I realize that even with the best ships I can refit them in a way that they make no sense, or I can pilot them in a way that they lose a lot of value. Let's assume that I can do some reasonable ship builds but nothing too specialized, and that I can not fly a ship with extreme skill
Also, I am really not looking for a step-by-step guide including every hullmod I should use as I like exploring the game mechanics, but more of a general guidelines I guess?

My ships:

• 3 * Legion XIV Battlecarrier (2-4 D-mods). I just looted these, very exciting!!
• 1 * Venture Cruiser (4 D-mods). Tbh doesn't look good at all. But might be useful until I find better?
• 3 * Colossus MK.III. Modified Freighter (Pirate, 2-4 D-mods). Erm, I guess it aint that bad considering they carry fighters but doesn't look too good either esp with the Legions
• 2 * Enforcer Destroyers (2-4 D-mods)
• 2 * Hammerhead Destroyers (3-4 D-mods)
• 1 * Shriek Destroyer (4 D-mods). Looks a bit fragile especially with the 4 D-mods. I guess a skilled pilot could use this? That's probably not me (yet! )
• 4 * Condor Light Carrier (0-3 D-mods). 2 of them don't have D-mods. I love these guys, I feel 2 of these won me many many battles. But I wonder if they become obsolete with the Legions? These are much faster though!
• 4 * Wolf Frigates (0-4 D-mods). 2 are in excellent condition. These guys really surprised me at how good they are.
• 1 * Vigilance Frigates (2 D-mods). Salvaged somewhere. Not a huge fan.
• 5 * Mule Combat Freighters (0-1 D-mods). 4 are in excellent condition. They look pretty good but I rarely use their fighting skills. I wonder if they are wasted?
• 4 * Cerberus Combat Freighters (1-4 D-mods). Idk. They are around because I can use the cargo space, but not a huge fan.
• 2 * Shephard Drone Tenders (1-2 D-mods). Are they worth bringing around for the extra salvage?
• Various other ships (0-4 D-mods). 1 Buffalo, 2 Drams, 3 various shuttles and small civilian transports that I have almost never used

Maybe I should mention that I have the skill that gives me reduced maintenance/deploy costs for ships with D-mods. I also have 600k credits, tho my monthly balance is negative, but I can afford to buy some ships if needed to compliment my carrier-heavy setup. For example Eagle looked pretty good but couldn't afford it at the time.

Look, I realize that I am asking a very broad question. I am a newbie so I probably don't even know what questions to ask. That being said, I really love this game and would really appreciate any input and advice that you guys could give given my situation. Thanks in advance

[Shad]

The important thing is to separate the ships you want in combat, and the ships you want for cargo/fuel and bonuses. While some ships are nice hybrids, ususally it's better to specialise.

Also note that exploration does not bring that much cash either way. If you can pick up the missions like "scan derelict" it can be better, but it's still not that efficient. The purpose of exploration is to give you the blueprints and money you need to set up your own colonies later. Late game you can also farm expensive loot from systems red warning beacons.

Also, since you mention burn levels of 7, I hope you are not forgetting "sustained burn". Also having an Ox tug in the fleet helps.

So as for the ships:
Legion XIV: one of the best and beginner-friendly capital. Even a single legion can destroy a small pirate fleet. 3 legions XIV alone can mop most pirate fleets by themselves, if crewed by officers.
Colossus MK.III. These are plain bad ships. If you have legions they have no use whatsoever. You may want the regular Colossus for cargo space.
Condor Light Carrier Very useful ships, just make you have some escots as they can be fragile.
Wolf Frigates Keep a few for the pursue phase.
Shepherd Drone Tenders Shepherds are excellent ships, until you have dedicated Salvage/Surverying equipment ships. The more the better.

So what's missing:
As said: salvage rigs . Also you seem to lack large dedicated tankers. You need the range for exploration.

[lethargie]

Exploration mission: 1 millitary destroyer, some frigate everything else is support for fuel/cargo. You have no use for millitary except to squash the occasional derelict defenses. Dodge all pirate and make money. Survey everything. You could make a team of dram, buffallo, cerberus, 1-2 mule, 1-2 wolf and a condor. Anything more is wasted on exploration.

Combat mission: Dedicated military ship and enough support to get to the bounty and come back. 1 phaeton and 1 colossus is enough support for a fleet that can take most bounty. 1 atlas and 1 Prometheus is enough to support anything.

Hybrid support/millitary ship are only ever useful early game, when you can hunt small pirate bounties to get supply for more exploration.

Dont use ship with maintenance/fuel penalties for exploration, generally don't bother with anything that has more than 1-2 combat affecting d-mod for combat. Dont recuperate a ship unless it falls into these categories, in fact unless you got the special skill to diminish d-mod penalties don't recuperate ever.

[akrammon]

Thanks for the replies guys! Really appreciate it!

While some ships are nice hybrids, ususally it's better to specialise.

I was afraid so. Seems like I busted some credits on those Mules unnecessarily. I will consider it a tuition fee  

Also note that exploration does not bring that much cash either way. If you can pick up the missions like "scan derelict" it can be better, but it's still not that efficient. The purpose of exploration is to give you the blueprints and money you need to set up your own colonies later. Late game you can also farm expensive loot from systems red warning beacons.

Yes, when I said exploration I meant take quests like scan derelict, scan domain stuff, survey planet, etc. Preferably the scanning ones. There is no gigantic cash in these but if I can stick 2 in the same general direction together then it is easy money. At least towards the beginning of the midgame, where I assume I am now. And sometimes there would be rare loot like modspecs, blueprints, cores, or some other stuff that looks like something that would boost a colony later on. Sometimes combat for some added xp.

Also, since you mention burn levels of 7, I hope you are not forgetting "sustained burn". Also having an Ox tug in the fleet helps.

Yes, I know sustained burn! And for the life of me I could not find an Ox in the past hours, but I will try to get some.

Re the ship tips, thanks man, this is pretty much what I was looking for. I will arm those Legions and try them in some combat missions. Also, will get myself a salvage rig and some more dedicated cargo/fuel ships. 

[akrammon]

Exploration mission: 1 millitary destroyer, some frigate everything else is support for fuel/cargo. You have no use for millitary except to squash the occasional derelict defenses. Dodge all pirate and make money. Survey everything. You could make a team of dram, buffallo, cerberus, 1-2 mule, 1-2 wolf and a condor. Anything more is wasted on exploration.

Thanks for the input man, yeah I was kindof feeling like I am overkilling these missions

Combat mission: Dedicated military ship and enough support to get to the bounty and come back. 1 phaeton and 1 colossus is enough support for a fleet that can take most bounty. 1 atlas and 1 Prometheus is enough to support anything.

Hmm, I guess I need some experience in what is enough to get the bounty and come back But I will start trying the harder pirate missions soon, thanks!

Re the D-mods, yeah you are right, but this is what I could loot early game right. I do not have the skill which lowers the negative effect as I prioritized other things first. I do have the skill that reduces maintenance for D-mod ships at least.

[Paul_Kauphart]

I personnally found having a good number of salvage rigs will help not bleeding money in supplies and fuel when exploring the sector, also, having surveying equipements on your ships will lower the survey costs drastically, at which point surveying by itself may turn a profit.

My early to mid game exploration fleet had pheatons and buffallos for logistics, a few detroyers and frigates, maybe 1 cruiser (enough to handle big derelict fleets) and that's it. And I usually would go back to the civilization when my cargo holds were full.

[lethargie]

In the map interface you can turn on the "fuel range" option. It draws 2 concentric circles on your party. The smaller one is the range you can reach and come back from assuming you fly in a straight line. It only look at current fuel reserve, not maximum possible, so fill up to get accurate result.

It really helps evaluate what you can reach with a given fleet, you just need the bounty to be on the limit of the smallest circle and you are fine. Fuel from the battle salvage will insure you get back with no problems. Remember you can salvage manually the debris field after a large battle, helps cover a bit the expenses of a bounty.

[bowman]

Legions are great for combat but, in part because they are capitals, are intense fuel hogs- don't bring them exploring. Well, you can bring one if you drop some of your other ships and use a single legion to compensate (like, say, dropping all condors and only bringing a legion for your carrier. Admittedly this would be a change in playstyle from multiple strike carriers to "everyone buddy by the legion and let's tear their ships some new airlocks")

If you plan on making as much use as you seem to be of salvaged (particularly 2+ D-mod) ships, I'd suggest getting some of the Industry skills that affect D-mods and salvaged vessels. You can halve D-mod effects, make salvaged ships come with 20-40% CR and Hull (great supply savings), and make ships get fewer D-mods in general. As someone else mentioned: Erratic Fuel Injector, High Maintenance(? or similar, cant remember exact name) is a no-go for exploration. Having it on one or two ships is okay but if one of those Legions has it I'd highly suggest never using that legion outside of plopping it into storage on your (eventual) colony and only bringing it out to immediately defend the colony.

And, yeah, specializing is better. Combat freighters are decent early-game but once you start getting a larger fleet (and larger fights) their value wanes rapidly. I will say, though, Combat Freighter > Dedicated Freighter w/ Compromised Storage D-Mod

I know you said no specifics but I'm gonna give you one tip on the Legions (partly because I'm pretty sure it's a default variant anyway): Try mining drones in its hangars and heavy weaponry on the Legion itself. Imo the most fun way to fly it.

[Thaago]

The most efficient ships for exploration are:

1) Colossus with Militarized Subsystem and Surveying Equipment (Or Augmented Engines for burn 10). As many as you feel like you need cargo space.

2) Apogee - preferably 2 of them to give each other cover.

3) A few Salvage rigs or Shepherds (several), whichever you get your hands on really. Shepherds are amazing early game ships, but really don't do well vs remnants. Pressing F1 over the salvage rig hullmod lets you know how much extra salvage you actually get (they don't stack linearly).

Now a fleet with these elements probably wants just a few more combat ships to fill the roles that Apogees can't - they are very tanky, but slow and lack shield breaking power. There are a lot of options, but I think a pair of Drovers would be a good choice - they can hide behind the tanky Apogees and chase/kill kiting remnant frigates. Gladius + Talon is good for anti frigate, but dual broadswords or dual dual longbows gives the shield breaking that Apogees lack (at the cost of speed).

[akrammon]

Thank you everyone for your inputs, it is all much appreciated

a good number of salvage rigs will help not bleeding money in supplies and fuel when exploring the sector, also, having surveying equipements on your ships will lower the survey costs drastically, at which point surveying by itself may turn a profit

Yeah I do have some shephards and salvage rigs, plus surveying equipment installed on some non-combat ships. surveying smaller planets costs only 5 supplies now Gas giants are not minimized tho

[akrammon]

If you plan on making as much use as you seem to be of salvaged (particularly 2+ D-mod) ships, I'd suggest getting some of the Industry skills that affect D-mods and salvaged vessels

It's not that I plan, they came like this When my best ship is a Hammrhead I am not going to leave the Legions I find out in nowhere because of some D-mods   If I buy a new ship, then I almost always go for 0 D-mods unless it is really of no consequence. But yeah, 3 of the 4 I found (1 more since the post!) have either increased maintenance or the slower speed debuff (degraded engines?), or the more fuel debuff, or both or all 3 lol. So yeah 3 of them is suboptimal to say the least. But they are almost always parked.

I do take them to take out some fat bounty pirate bases, and yeah I have founded a colony since and 2 of them are parked there

edit: spelling

[akrammon]

The most efficient ships for exploration are:

1) Colossus with Militarized Subsystem and Surveying Equipment (Or Augmented Engines for burn 10). As many as you feel like you need cargo space.

2) Apogee - preferably 2 of them to give each other cover.

3) A few Salvage rigs or Shepherds (several), whichever you get your hands on really. Shepherds are amazing early game ships, but really don't do well vs remnants. Pressing F1 over the salvage rig hullmod lets you know how much extra salvage you actually get (they don't stack linearly).

Now a fleet with these elements probably wants just a few more combat ships to fill the roles that Apogees can't - they are very tanky, but slow and lack shield breaking power. There are a lot of options, but I think a pair of Drovers would be a good choice - they can hide behind the tanky Apogees and chase/kill kiting remnant frigates. Gladius + Talon is good for anti frigate, but dual broadswords or dual dual longbows gives the shield breaking that Apogees lack (at the cost of speed).

Thanks man I will keep an eye out for apogees, unfortunately I haven't seen any yet

To give a bit of update, currently I fly an Eagle, 2 Condors, 3-4 Wolves with Buffalos, Colossuses, Phaetons, Drams, a Salvage Rig, Shephards and a single Tug. Burn is 19 this way, supplies are 3/day. I can't recall the fuel consumption but I feel it is a bit high. I guess I should gradually phase out the Buffalos for Colossus and the Drams for Phaetons.

Eagle is really fun to fly tho!

For combat I have the 4 Legions and since then I have found an Astral!! But 2 of my legions are in my colony which I have recently founded, 2 in Corvus. I get the feeling that I almost can't carry more than 2 of these guys anywhere for a reasonable price with all the D-mods So I separated them to 2 groups. That being said, these ships are insane!

[Flying Birdy]

3 * Legion XIV Battlecarrier (2-4 D-mods)

Don't take these; too much fuel cost

1 * Venture Cruiser (4 D-mods).

Take this ship. It has the hull-mods built-in that lowers your survey costs. Add augmented engines and militarized subsystem so this venture can fly at 10 burn (you should aim for all your ships to be 10 burn).

3 * Colossus MK.III. Modified Freighter (Pirate, 2-4 D-mods)

No

2 * Enforcer Destroyers (2-4 D-mods)

If they have erratic injectors I would not take them. Otherwise, if they have more than 3 d-mods I would take them as they are cheap supply-wise and fairly tanky. Generally, you want the AI to fly tanky ships.

2 * Hammerhead Destroyers (3-4 D-mods)

You probably wanna use one as your flag ship here.

1 * Shriek Destroyer (4 D-mods).

No

4 * Condor Light Carrier (0-3 D-mods).

No

4 * Wolf Frigates (0-4 D-mods).

I would not bring any unless you plan to use a wolf as your flagship.

1 * Vigilance Frigates (2 D-mods).

No

5 * Mule Combat Freighters (0-1 D-mods).

Bring all of them. My only complaint is that they don't have enough d-mods on them.

4 * Cerberus Combat Freighters (1-4 D-mods).

No.

2 * Shephard Drone Tenders (1-2 D-mods).

Both

Various other ships (0-4 D-mods). 1 Buffalo, 2 Drams, 3 various shuttles and small civilian transports

Bring the buffalo and both drams.

In terms of load outs for the ships, add augmented drive fields to anything that can't reach 10 burn. You'll want to be fast so you can explore more in less time. Some civilian ships like the Venture will need militarized subsystems + augmented drive fields to reach 10 burn.

In addition, anything piloted by AI should have reinforced bulkheads. Add surveying equipment to anything with spare OP.

Make sure you also get field repairs level 3 for the reduced supply cost. If you only bring the ships that's in the list here, you should be around no more than 1.5 supplies/day. Exploration is all about keeping your costs down!

[Null Ganymede]

The cool thing is, there's a ton of ways to make those ships work. Choice depends on personal preference/available hullmods and weapons.

At the end of the trip, it's all about cost:benefit. How much supplies did you spend, and how much loot/credits/supplies did you bring back?

There's extrinsic force multipliers (skills, officers, hullmods) that can make sub-par fleet compositions cost effective. And there's excellent fleet compositions that will carry you with no combat or logistics skills. And there's everything in between, that you can also tweak based on patience (20 burn is nice for long trips, but forgoing it opens up options) or flavor.

Some stuff I haven't seen mentioned:

• Capital fuel costs scale non-linearly. They guzzle fuel. The Efficiency Overhaul hullmod and that last Science skill you've already got might still make them worth bringing along on long trips. Capital carriers in particular are great for colonization, crew-heavy survey, and may be more self-sufficient than usual in fuel and cargo capacity.
• Condors are the best value combat ships in the game. For very few points you get 2 fighter or bomber wings and a medium LRM slot. Fast Missile Racks can churn out anything with an autoloader, and the Salamander/Pilum spam makes them safer than they initially look.
• For serious combat, think force concentration. You want a fleet anchor in the front line, ideally something big that isn't afraid to engage enemy big ships. You want a front line around it, so it doesn't get flanked. And then you want a back line providing fighter cover, bomber strikes, and lobbing LRMs. And then you want some frigate "cavalry" to chase stragglers, tie up enemies when you're outnumbered, exploit flanks, or cheaply escort heavies. And you want all of them to be engaged at once in the same place, while your flagship shores up any weak spots.

Exploration missions can make do with some Wolves and as much cargo as you think you'll fill up with salvage. As you go after more dangerous systems, you can start to tack on Condor fighter cover and begin to add a front line. This is also enough force concentration to break early pirate fleets.

By the time you're facing down multiple non-pirate cruisers or larger, you'll want to start adding in Legions. (Legion - the front line anchor that bombs!)