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Author Topic: Frustration abound  (Read 2991 times)

eidolad

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2019, 11:53:13 AM »

I think that the player in .91a can concentrate on their "big seven" ship composition, and win against formidable odds.  Those seven should be really well founded ship loadouts.

I'm finding that in my heavily modded Nexerelin game (including Starship Legends mod that's still in development), that my legendary officers, on their legendary ships, are quite capable when I go for a 300K+ bounty.  My fleet is led by me in a Victory battleship, and my "big seven" are:

1 BB, 3 CA, 3 CV     // I don't imply that the battleship is required...but does improve safety over riding in a tough cruiser.

...and the rest are assorted CA/CV/DD.

The difference in weight of metal when I go up against the large bounties is often so much that the "fleet circles" on the map are very different size.  The saving graces are: 

a) in my initial deployment of those seven ships, we rarely face daunting odds in the initial phase of the battle
b) my .91a AI do a great job of staying alive and especially, not overloading.  I get a lot of time to kill things
c) the enemy fleets insist on a high number of smaller ships...which as i kill...allows me to bring in the rest of my top ships.  A Drover has no business loitering on the flank of a Victory with enhanced thrusters.
d) So the enemy reinforcements are facing the reverse snowball...I'm getting stronger and they are not

The vulnerability for me continues to be massed enemy heavy carriers...a force led by 10 heavy carriers downed several of my ships and represents the only mixed result I've had against these big huge bounties.

My "big seven" really depend on the trickle-in of AI ships to survive in these odds.

No, there are some bounty configs that I won't go up against yet...I'm just now getting enough big fleet flag-deck experience to face the "lots of Conquests" configs.  Oh that multi-Paragon/Astral bounty config?...let's await perhaps our own single Paragon erm?
_______

The magic resolution to frustration is:  ensure that AI ships have best tactical speed, and really high flux dissipation.  Don't let them get trapped and overloaded...that is the default death sentence.    Bring blue-class (advanced) fighters seeded with several that have Ion weapons.   Your AI pilots live and help, while you and your fighter squadrons get in the key kills.  Perhaps assign a smaller ship to escort you to help with anti-flanking or with flak support.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2019, 12:50:07 PM »

The reward for taking on high-tier deserter bounties isn't the money. The money will probably cover your costs, but that's not the profit. The true reward is the high-tier ships you can get without needing a commission + high rep + lots of money, or a colony + blueprints. The fleet overview isn't just so you know what the threats are, it's so you know the potential rewards. If you just want money for combat, station smashing is easier and more efficient than high-tier bounties. Reducing the amount of capitals and cruisers in high-tier bounties will make them easier, but it'll also make them less rewarding.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2019, 01:12:05 PM »

My experience is that by the time I can kill multi-capital ship bounties without too much risk, I already have a good colony and can produce whatever I want. Looking for blueprints is a much better way of getting good ships than trying to fight bounties. Plus you probably don't have many extra slots open if you've brought enough ships to kill the fleet, so your chances of getting what you want are low.
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Megas

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2019, 03:06:32 PM »

I agree with intrinsic_parity.

The main reward for taking out absurd 300k multi-capital fleets is the money.  If I look for clunkers from the enemy, and have not built a zombie character that wants clunkers, I am not powerful enough to risk my fleet against a 350k+ ten capital meat-grinder when I can wait for 250k or so bounty comparable to classic Hegemony System Defense Fleet (or less) or any bounty on a simple tier 1 pirate base (that is easily cheesed by few Reaper Afflictors).  If I am strong enough to win 350k+ bounty without much risk, I probably have everything I need to win the game, and can replace losses easily.

Clunkers are good if you do not have the blueprints or industry with nanoforge yet to build ships.  Once player has blueprints and colonies, building ships is superior to clunkers, unless maybe your character is a zombie built to use clunkers.

If I fight said 350k+ bounty and lose up to 100k worth of ships (like Afflictor or a cruiser) due to few mistakes, okay, I just build more ships and still come out ahead.
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Lucky33

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2019, 03:40:37 PM »

This late in the game the main reward are the relationship point.
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Thaago

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2019, 05:25:09 PM »

The big bounties are nice for buying buildings. Go clean up a few bounties in a row, pay for a new colony's stuff.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2019, 05:32:56 PM »

But I can just do a bunch of pirate bases and 200k bounties and make 80% of the money with 10% of the risk...
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Megas

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2019, 05:57:14 PM »

This late in the game the main reward are the relationship point.
Maybe, good for Diktat with only one system crawling with big detachments to block raids (and a pain for me to sneak by for blueprint raids).  For others, it is easier to get more rep by waiting until a faction offers a system bounty then wipe out fleets there (and there are plenty if offered after a pirate raid) for fast rep gain with most major factions and sometimes Independents, and Independents have easy rep gain with their distress calls and missions from the bars of your own colonies.  So far, most of the bounties come from factions were that are already easier to grind rep with.  Diktat might be the exception.

As for 350k bounties, if I am strong enough to flatten them, might as well do it for the mostly free income.  If not, I would do slightly less rewarding ones with much less risk as intrinsic_parity wrote.

The big bounties are nice for buying buildings. Go clean up a few bounties in a row, pay for a new colony's stuff.
Also nice for producing a bunch of pristine ships big and small, to replace the clunkers I use for the whole game before that point, along with a bunch of rare weapons I have drooled over for much of the game.
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Thaago

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2019, 06:06:28 PM »

But I can just do a bunch of pirate bases and 200k bounties and make 80% of the money with 10% of the risk...

Well yeah but then you'd have to fly over to where they are, and the other bounties are more convenient. Its like going to the closer gas station even though you know that you may have a substantial portion of your crew die horrible deaths.

That analogy got away from me at the end...
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Lucky33

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2019, 12:03:29 AM »

For others, it is easier to get more rep by waiting until a faction offers a system bounty then wipe out fleets there (and there are plenty if offered after a pirate raid) for fast rep gain with most major factions and sometimes Independents, and Independents have easy rep gain with their distress calls and missions from the bars of your own colonies.  So far, most of the bounties come from factions were that are already easier to grind rep with.  Diktat might be the exception.

As for 350k bounties, if I am strong enough to flatten them, might as well do it for the mostly free income.  If not, I would do slightly less rewarding ones with much less risk as intrinsic_parity wrote.

System and personal bounties are not mutually exclusive. Where is no point in waiting for system one if you can do personal right now.

Distress calls and other small stuff cease to gain rep after some reputaion limit.

Risk is the only fun thing this late in the game.
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Vind

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2019, 01:06:27 AM »

Pirates bases and raid bounties in raided systems is far more lucrative business. Considering you need to clear pirates anyway to stop core colonies from failing in the long run.
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TrashMan

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2019, 02:06:02 AM »

I think that the player in .91a can concentrate on their "big seven" ship composition, and win against formidable odds.  Those seven should be really well founded ship loadouts.

I'm finding that in my heavily modded Nexerelin game (including Starship Legends mod that's still in development), that my legendary officers, on their legendary ships, are quite capable when I go for a 300K+ bounty.  My fleet is led by me in a Victory battleship, and my "big seven" are:

1 BB, 3 CA, 3 CV     // I don't imply that the battleship is required...but does improve safety over riding in a tough cruiser.

...and the rest are assorted CA/CV/DD.

One flaw in your argument - you basically have a high-end fleet.
In my playtrough I don't have a battleship yet and got 2 cruisers just now, and those super-bounties started popping up very early and now make 99% of all generated bounties (I increased the number of bounties, to no avail)



a) in my initial deployment of those seven ships, we rarely face daunting odds in the initial phase of the battle
b) my .91a AI do a great job of staying alive and especially, not overloading.  I get a lot of time to kill things
c) the enemy fleets insist on a high number of smaller ships...which as i kill...allows me to bring in the rest of my top ships.  A Drover has no business loitering on the flank of a Victory with enhanced thrusters.
d) So the enemy reinforcements are facing the reverse snowball...I'm getting stronger and they are not

The vulnerability for me continues to be massed enemy heavy carriers...a force led by 10 heavy carriers downed several of my ships and represents the only mixed result I've had against these big huge bounties.

My "big seven" really depend on the trickle-in of AI ships to survive in these odds.

No, there are some bounty configs that I won't go up against yet...I'm just now getting enough big fleet flag-deck experience to face the "lots of Conquests" configs.  Oh that multi-Paragon/Astral bounty config?...let's await perhaps our own single Paragon erm?
_______

The magic resolution to frustration is:  ensure that AI ships have best tactical speed, and really high flux dissipation.  Don't let them get trapped and overloaded...that is the default death sentence.    Bring blue-class (advanced) fighters seeded with several that have Ion weapons.   Your AI pilots live and help, while you and your fighter squadrons get in the key kills.  Perhaps assign a smaller ship to escort you to help with anti-flanking or with flak support.
[/quote]
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Megas

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2019, 11:06:24 AM »

System and personal bounties are not mutually exclusive. Where is no point in waiting for system one if you can do personal right now.

Distress calls and other small stuff cease to gain rep after some reputaion limit.

Risk is the only fun thing this late in the game.
Time constraints can make some of them mutually exclusive.  They are not mutually exclusive by default, but other circumstances can force them to be.  Fighting several deathballs (or anything if rep was low) in a row in a system bounty will crank rep, and possibly money, up very fast.  Named bounties give 3 or 5 - a drop in the bucket.  Named bounties are worth it mostly for the money if the player can crush them in flawless victory, although they are handy for new clunkers earlier in the game too.

Distress calls and missions work all the way up to 100.  True, distress calls and missions are not available by demand; you need to blunder into them by luck.  Stuff like open market trade and small fights seem to be limited, although small fights are handy if rep is not in the green.  I generally do not care about high rep in itself, but I do want to avoid hostilities due to killing colonies' accessibility.  Since failed expeditions and stealth blueprint raiding cost rep, I want rep as high as possible as a cushion for inevitable rep lost.

I avoid risk if I can.  Auto-win via auto-resolve is the ideal outcome for me, if I have other things I want to do, usually non-combat things delayed by constant policing of the sector.
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Baqar79

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2019, 03:50:10 AM »

I've had a particularly rough iron mode play-through; first memorable moment of despair was being caught unaware by a way-to-big bounty for me (while out exploring) and losing about 600k worth of ships in my attempt to retreat.  I did not have a colony at this time and amongst the casualties were two Apogee's that I had bought and fitted with at the time rare weapons.  It took a long time to recover from that...not just the time raising the money, but also finding someone that sold the Apogee's and the right weapons to equip them.

So I tend to avoid bounties since there are other safer ways of making cash, just check out your local bar:

Now that is fairly safe money and better paying then any of the active current bounties.

If a bounty is paying 300k, then at most you can't afford to lose more than two cruisers to cut even (and you need to consider the supplies and fuel to get to the bounty area and the deployment costs).  If the player is meant to lose ships during these bounties, then with the new costs for ships, bounties should increase as well.  I kind of feel even 1M+ for some end-game bounties isn't unreasonable (especially as you can be making 400k/month with a single colony).
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Megas

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Re: Frustration abound
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2019, 05:44:44 AM »

@ Baqar79:  I hear you.  Named bounties are only worth it if you can crush them.  As for bar missions, I would like to see one as rewarding as yours.  Most of them are under 100k, and I usually reject them.  (Most of those that I accept are whose destination are at my colony where I need to go anyway to dump loot.)  I get a few that exceed that, and only got one that was close to 200k.  Maybe it has to do with fleet capacity?

How do you get 400k/month per colony income?  So far, I just got four size 6 colonies and enough stability to make free port worthwhile.  They are making an average of 200k each (some more, some less).  I am trying to race to size 7 for that fourth industry, although two of them will need military bases for more stability and big fleets to repel expeditions.

Re: reputation
I was struggling with building up rep with Diktat.  I took an named bounty and planet scan mission for rep building with Diktat, plus derelict mission with Pathers (they are only inhospitable toward me).  Killed bounty for 300k credits and +3 rep with Diktat, then did Pather mission for more rep.  After that, had to go back to core for more fuel before going to the last planet scan mission.  Then I got system bounty at Askonia.  I abandoned the planet scan mission (and eat -1 rep), which would have given only about +5 rep if I finished it, and headed to Askonia to kill pirates.  Umbra had a ton of pirates, and I fought a bunch of fleets.  Also, Sindria was unguarded, and I was able to raid it twice for blueprints (got light and heavy needlers).  In the end, I built rep from almost nothing to +50 just from murdering pirates, even after the rep hits from stealth raiding Sindria for blueprints.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 07:51:32 AM by Megas »
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