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Author Topic: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.  (Read 1922 times)

Megas

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With high-end endgame fights being ridiculously big (much bigger than pre-0.9a), like nine or ten enemy capitals, at least ten more cruisers, and token small ships, not to mention Paragon is worth now worth 60 OP, it would be nice for the maximum to be higher than 500 so those whose computers can handle such enormous big fights can enjoy a real fleet battle instead of a series of long and drawn-out tag-team duels not unlike a modified Star Control melee.

(Before anyone mentions settings.json, there is a reason why I put "in-game" in the title.)
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TJJ

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Re: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2019, 04:05:41 AM »

I don't disagree, but variable battle size limits already have a significant impact upon balance & difficulty.

Not sure how that can be addressed; maybe it can't.

If that's the case, the game should warn the player when changing from the default size.
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Megas

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Re: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2019, 07:16:45 AM »

Smaller size would have been enough for 0.8.x and earlier, but fights are way too big in 0.9.x (battlestations and absurd bounties with ten or more capital), and Paragon is very expensive (60 DP instead of 50).  The only way to have anything resembling a fleet battle late in the game is to max battle map size, which more like upgrades the 3v3 fight at size 300 to 5v5 fight at 500.

I only use 300 because it is the default and 500 slows my (eight or nine year old) computer too much if both fleets have significant fighter activity (i.e., carrier fleets).  500 is fine for me if it is primarily large warships, but not all battles are solely warship fights.

For those with faster computers, let them enjoy a proper fleet battle instead of a 3v3 battle.

What good is balance if we are forced to use a fleet as individual champions in a series of duels (like in Star Control) instead of as a proper fleet?
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 01:15:41 AM »

I think that alot of this and similar issues could be solved if the launcher allowed you to change the settings file (along with the VMPRAMS file)
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eidolad

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Re: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 06:33:17 PM »

I like that this suggestion, among others I've seen post-.91a, that attempt to address the small deployment cap. 

Last night, my titanic battle with 8 opposing Conquests, Odysseys, Victories, and tons of carriers and other nasties...

...started with me in my Victory, two cruisers, and three carriers against a large fraction of the above (thankfully).  It was a great battle...but played out like some sort of "proportionally balanced play where the more I destroyed, the more of my own ships could I actually use against a steady consistent wave of bad guys".

My circa 2008 machine isn't up to 30 on 30 with all fighters battle...but still the idea of easily expanding the battle size would be helpful.

The tradeoff is that "player agency" is reduced...since I will not be there to fight all seven of those Conquests myself.  In the current .91a...I think that I am there at least 50% of the time to influence the outcome of key matchups...which is critical since the loss of a capital ship in the endgame for me, is a big deal (since I should have honed ship builds and fleet composition).
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Megas

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Re: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 06:35:42 AM »

It should not reduce "agency".  In 0.6.5, player could deploy forty frigates, and still do something useful.  Here, replace those frigates with capitals instead.  Maximum fleet size of 500 is too small to work with capital spam that the AI favors today.  In a way, it feels like early-game again with limited peak performance and few ships, except the ships are capitals instead of frigates.

I want glorious fleet battles (if I cannot solo fights), and you barely get that with 500 map size, and only if one of your ships is not a Paragon.  If you want to use Paragon, you will never get a proper fleet battle even with 500 map size due to its abnormally high DP cost.
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Igncom1

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Re: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 01:43:48 PM »

If you want to use Paragon, you will never get a proper fleet battle even with 500 map size due to its abnormally high DP cost.

I mean, it IS a paragon we are talking about here. Basically a super battleship that makes eagle cruisers look like destroyer escort ships.

And isn't this a case of what should a fleet battle actually look like? With the expensive high-tech ships set out to be more of a fleet with a couple capital ships supported by a wave of super-frigates. Would that not be a proper fleet battle even with high dp costs on the capitals?

Wouldn't that depend on the fleet organisation of the player more then the game? Not that I would be totally opposed to having some fleet org system that you can or cannot choose to fulfil. Having a fleet battle or choosing to deploy singular massive ships is more up to us then anything else, right? Or am I misunderstanding your position?
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Megas

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Re: Raise in-game maximum map size in settings higher than 500.
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 02:26:41 PM »

Paragon is not that super over other capitals without quality weapons, given how energy weapons in general get a bad rap.  Without beams, Paragon is comparable to an overpriced Onslaught or Conquest without a mobility system.  With heavy beams and good kinetics in the universals, it becomes a monster, much like how Apogee becomes much stronger than its starter self once it finds plasma cannon and Locusts to replace mining blaster and pilums.

Paragon was only a mere 50 DP until 0.9a.  Nothing else seems to have changed beyond DP cost.

If I crank fleet size to the max, I should enjoy a fleet battle, not simply upgrade from 2v2 or 3v3 to 5v5.

Given that endgame AI loves capital spam, it is like small time early game all over again with capitals instead of frigates.
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