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Author Topic: Gaming's Worst Mechanic  (Read 1247 times)

Deshara

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Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« on: October 31, 2018, 04:20:20 PM »

Weapon Degradation and Gun Jamming. Impossible to do well, never should be put into your game. Right? Wrong.
It turns out it's actually just been implemented badly this whole time.

Prey Mooncrash introduces said mechanics, but instead of having your gun randomly be removed from your inventory or randomly fail to fire when you needed it to, it would fire and THEN jam, making letting your gun get to 0 condition just turn it into a single-shot that you need to re-iinvest in or replace.

Which is pretty good, it turns out. It's fair, bc there's no randomness to it (every shot at 0 condition jams) you see it coming and know once it's there, but also the gun remains lifesaving and works when you use it, while also still /feeling/ like a broken gun that needs to be replaced.
So, the common line about how the Prey reboot didn't innovate on anything can go away bc its DLC innovated on gaming's worst mechanic and proved it can be done well.
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Shrugger

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 01:35:59 AM »

Shuddup, guns jamming in Far Cry 2 and in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was among the best parts of either game.
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Cik

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 04:21:19 AM »

gun jamming is and has always been fine as long as it's done at realistic rates

if you don't want your gun to jam, don't melt your weapon by firing it at cyclic for extended periods of time.
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CopperCoyote

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 06:07:22 PM »

Shuddup, guns jamming in Far Cry 2 and in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was among the best parts of either game.

Haven't played farcry 2 but I have played STALKER. Its at it's best in the first game shadow of Chernobyl because the augmentations didn't get implemented till later. It was always a magical moment when you found a decent weapon with a full or near full durability. The guns felt the best in that one too. except pistols i guess. felt like the sights were busted, but every thing else was good.

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Morbo513

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 01:06:53 AM »

Weapon Degradation and Gun Jamming. Impossible to do well, never should be put into your game. Right? Wrong.
It turns out it's actually just been implemented badly this whole time.

Prey Mooncrash introduces said mechanics, but instead of having your gun randomly be removed from your inventory or randomly fail to fire when you needed it to, it would fire and THEN jam, making letting your gun get to 0 condition just turn it into a single-shot that you need to re-iinvest in or replace.

Which is pretty good, it turns out. It's fair, bc there's no randomness to it (every shot at 0 condition jams) you see it coming and know once it's there, but also the gun remains lifesaving and works when you use it, while also still /feeling/ like a broken gun that needs to be replaced.
So, the common line about how the Prey reboot didn't innovate on anything can go away bc its DLC innovated on gaming's worst mechanic and proved it can be done well.
I disagree that gun jamming in general is a bad mechanic. It's been implemented so few times in major games. There are some where it makes little sense, I felt FC2 was one of them, but it can be used to good effect where it's more appropriate, particularly survival-horror. I think its best appearance is in System Shock 2, from which Prey derives many features and design choices. Even if it's only ever failures-to-fire, it achieves the objective of sowing mistrust between the player and his equipment, unless the player takes steps to mitigate weapon degradation. It leads to moments of panic when you hear "a click instead of a bang" and you scramble for an alternative or try to run away. It fuels the tension, the player given the knowledge that the mileage they get out their weapons isn't just tied to ammo and accuracy, and that extending that mileage means diverting precious resource that might be better used elsewhere.

I think failures to feed/failures to cycle are certainly an interesting way to approach it - SS2's jams are of the failure-to-fire kind. I've yet to see a game that does both.
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Nick XR

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 12:21:59 PM »

Ladders.  Ladders are the worst.

Serenitis

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2019, 02:21:48 AM »

Minigames are bad. But often optional and ignorable.
Minigames that are gates to actual content are awful.

'Warscore' is one of my (incredibly sujective) pet hates. And the reason I bounced off Stellaris (and every other paradox mapgame) hard.
If I'm playing an empire game and end up in a war, the rules are as follows:
  • Take what I can
  • Give nothing back
Being forced to specifiy what you want to take beforehand, and then give back the rest is utterly baffling to me in a game.
It's one of those fun > "realism" things.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2019, 05:01:11 PM »

Minigames are bad. But often optional and ignorable.
Minigames that are gates to actual content are awful.

'Warscore' is one of my (incredibly sujective) pet hates. And the reason I bounced off Stellaris (and every other paradox mapgame) hard.
If I'm playing an empire game and end up in a war, the rules are as follows:
  • Take what I can
  • Give nothing back
Being forced to specify what you want to take beforehand, and then give back the rest is utterly baffling to me in a game.
It's one of those fun > "realism" things.
THIS^ You keep what you kill! This, war weariness and forced peace treaties is why I just can't get into Stellaris. I came to fight space battles, blow s*** up and take over the universe! Not sit on my paws and kiss political a**
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TJJ

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2019, 04:40:46 AM »

Minigames are bad. But often optional and ignorable.
Minigames that are gates to actual content are awful.

'Warscore' is one of my (incredibly sujective) pet hates. And the reason I bounced off Stellaris (and every other paradox mapgame) hard.
If I'm playing an empire game and end up in a war, the rules are as follows:
  • Take what I can
  • Give nothing back
Being forced to specify what you want to take beforehand, and then give back the rest is utterly baffling to me in a game.
It's one of those fun > "realism" things.
THIS^ You keep what you kill! This, war weariness and forced peace treaties is why I just can't get into Stellaris. I came to fight space battles, blow s*** up and take over the universe! Not sit on my paws and kiss political a**

It makes sense in settings where there is an overarching legal framework within which all rulers operate; i.e. 'rules of war'.
The 'game' them becomes focussed on the politics & intrigue behind acquiring the necessary claims & CBs to enact the wars you desire.

That's why ck2 is such a great game, and one of the reasons why Stellaris is such a dismal failure.
It's also why everyone will eventually outgrow Civ & Total War games.

If only Stellaris had been set in the Dune universe.....
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 04:44:41 AM by TJJ »
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Sabaton

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Re: Gaming's Worst Mechanic
« Reply #9 on: Today at 08:52:40 AM »

The best system I've ever seen is in Fallout New Vegas where gear only jams/fails to protect you below a clearly defined threshold, as in your gun will never jam if you keep it above 75% condition.

Not to mention that the repair skill affects how good the repairs are, not whether you can do them at all, meaning that at 100 skill you will repair an item with way fewer resources that at 25. Not to mention certain perks that can make repairs ludicrously easy.

This system makes item condition transparent and always manageable, by far the best I know of.
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