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Author Topic: Gamma Cores: how to not loose money (quick guide with images & explanation)  (Read 12597 times)

Hussar

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EDIT 09 June 2019: It appears that latest hotfix might have "fixed" gammas as removing the demand boosts the "% of demand met". If so, the whole thread is void. With which I'm more than fine with if that's the case but I haven't yet tested that. Following edit: Actually it appears that what's below does still hold true mostly. Albeit player doesn't influence the global market anymore as Histidine pointed out. I'll be doing a new round of testing and update accordingly.

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So, before 0.9.1, gamma cores were only kinda useful if our colonies begun experiencing "global shortages". However by this point most of us would either invest into Industry Planner perk (which had changed and no longer provides -1 bonus to commodity demand) and more than likely had a few beta and alpha cores lying around ready to use instead of gammas. Thus to some - including myself - gamma cores were useless in all intents and purposes in regards to their colony applications. They were (and still are) useful diplomatic chits - this however ain't subject of this post.

Though overall economy haven't changed in 0.9.1, as it still does adhere to what I do call a "cookie principle" (our colonies eat the cookie (goods) and export the very same cookie (goods) at the same time - taxing them twice), there are now ways of using gamma cores to reduce demand and actually earn a few credits. I'll explain below with a few screenshots how to do it - but first I want to make it clear that this is clearly only an early game solution. As our colonies will grew and we'll produce more and more - effectively filling the in-faction demand - it will nullify the effect of gamma cores and will make you loose money if we keep them on industries and won't remove them/replace them with better AI cores. This is sadly because of the "cookie principle" economy where consumption doesn't affect our possible exports.

With that said, I'll explain the rules on how to actually make gamma's useful early game.


For an example, I'll take my colony of Telcontar - a 50% hazard Terran World in system with another colony - an 100% Jungle world that provides the foodstuffs. At the time I had only 4 gamma cores to use - so keep that in mind.

Colony
[close]
Non-tampered with Telcontar.

What values matter:
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As we're importing food in, and have crew demand met - it translates to 25% of demand fulfilled (and 0.88 modifier - why it is so - I have no idea - (edit: I have idea, annendum at the end of the post) it does however get slashed by planetary conditions [so 50% in this case] and applied across all structures and industries afterwards - so the modifier is 0.44 in the end). We can however push it further, but the thing that does matter for us are not individual industries but the overall market demand. That is why I had marked the Commodities tab on the right - instead of any particular industry.

So, my first move was to drop gamma onto Ground Defenses:
1st gamma
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Reasoning: GD consumes 2 "commodities" that I'm not yet producing in-faction and my faction is forced to import. By doing so I had completely removed the need for heavy armaments and limited the need for marines - effectively removing 2 units of commodities from overall pool of resources needed & counted towards the ratio of demand met through in-faction imports and production. As we can see, the % had risen from 25% to 28% - and we've earned 105 credits. This is nothing of course, but still a welcome change from loosing income as before.

Next I had applied gamma to Patrol HQ:
2nd gamma
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Reasoning: PHQ is the only structure that consumes 2 units of starship hulls (Ship Hulls & Weapons), as spaceport does demand only 1 unit of those. Thus by applying gamma onto PHQ, I had effectively removed another 1 unit of demand from the overall equation. The reduced demand for supplies and fuel (from 2 units down to 1 respectively) is irrelevant here - as there are other structures that do demand two or more units of those. We've pushed overall % of demand met from 28=>29%.

Next I had took a look at fuel situation:
3rd gamma
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Reasoning: Waystation had been the sole reason why demand for fuel was on 3 units at my colony (3 for WS, 2 for PHQ, 1 for Spaceport), and since I've already applied gamma onto PHQ, the difference was even greater (3 WS, 1 for PHQ & SP each). WS does of course demand supplies and crew too, but those commodities are irrelevant in here as other structures does demand same or greater amounts of those. However by applying a gamma core on WS, I had effectively removed another unit of commodity from overall equation - pushing the overall % of demand met from 29=>31%! And getting another 58 credits a month in the process (it's meme worthy but it's still a gain) :x

So, I had one last gamma core left to use. And that's where I'm going to show you the "cookie principle" at work as my two remaining choices were to apply it to either orbital station or population & infrastructure. Tech-mining does not have any demands so placing gamma on that structure is pointless. While SP's demands are 1 unit of fuel, hulls and supplies - so applying gamma there would completely nullify the demand for this building. It wouldn't however affect the overall commodity situation, so it wouldn't lent itself towards a bigger % of demand met. However, if you're loosing shipments due to raiding - dropping gamma on SP might prevent you from loosing further accessibility as SP will be less susceptible to trade disruptions (and completely impervious on size 3).

So, lets first take a loot at what happens when we drop gamma onto Population & infrastructure:
"Cookie Principle" on Pop&Inf
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So, this time we're getting quite different results that perhaps otherwise expected (for those unfamiliar with my laughably named principle). After all, we've clearly lost money - despite % of demand met staying at the same level of 31% (as we still have gammas on GF, PHQ and WS). Why is that?

Although we had eliminated the demand for Recreational Drugs, and limited the demand for Domestic Goods - we had also removed 1 unit of food from equation. Which means that we had eliminated 2 units of imports from the total demand - but we had also removed 1 unit of in-faction imports. Which means that we've reduced in-faction market and demand for foodstuffs we already produce. Which in turn yields us a hit towards monthly income, while removed imports from outside of our faction kept the overall % of demand met on 31%.

In the end, unless we have an axe to grind with smuggling elements - placing a gamma core on population and infrastructure turns to be unprofitable for us. Lets try again, by removing this gamma and placing it on orbital station:
"Cookie Principle" on Orbital Station
[close]
This time results are even more surprising, aren't they?

As the previous 3 gammas are still on their industries (GD, PHQ, WS) - the only effect we've got this time was upon crew demand. Although they're a non-taxable good, they do apparently still count towards the overall % of demand met on the market. And by placing the 4th gamma on OS, we had reduced their demand from 3 units (which we are providing in faction/on planet) down to 2. Effectively removing 1 unit of in-faction imports - thus the 31% dropped down to 27% and we've lost money through reduced discount towards the planetary upkeep. As you can see it raise from 0.84 up to 0.87 which is then slashed in half (because 50% hazard) and applied across all industries and structures.


I hope this post will help those who don't yet understand how to use gamma cores in a way to not loose money.


Edit: *The figure 0.88 comes from 25%/2 (as max in-faction supply is to give us 50% upkeep discount) rounded down, so 100-12=0.88 - then local hazard conditions and possible further 25% from beta/alpha core and 10% from IP perk are being applied.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 03:22:05 AM by Hussar »
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Vayra

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Thanks for taking the time to type all this out! It's super helpful -- I had thought gammas were basically just a 'trap' for new players, glad to see that's (not always 100%) the case.  ;D
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
Vayra's Sector: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058
Vayra's Ship Pack: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16059

im gonna push jangala into the sun i swear to god im gonna do it

SCC

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No, they were trap options about 90% of the time in 0.9, where reducing demand reduced your income or did nothing. Now what's changed is that you should put gamma cores only on industries with demands that aren't already fulfilled in-faction.

Hussar

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No, they were trap options about 90% of the time in 0.9, where reducing demand reduced your income or did nothing. Now what's changed is that you should put gamma cores only on industries with demands that aren't already fulfilled in-faction.

As I had tried to explain in the post - one rather should place them on industries on which you can "remove" most of the non-faction imports without removing a single unit of in-faction imports. Because whole system operates on total sum of demand of an colony and if you "remove" an unit of in-faction imports you're not only worsening the overall % of fulfilled demand and in cases of taxable goods - you're also shrinking the global market which drives the prices of the particular commodity down across all your colonies (theoretically across the system but it's hard to notice on AI markets).

In other words gamma's have an expiration date as soon as you'll start covering the demand for goods through in-faction imports. Only industries like mining perhaps can be still positively affected overall by a gamma, as you gonna limit the demand for drugs (unless you're a "freeporter") and since it might take a while to get a heavy industry going - also machinery. But otherwise there is a point at which gamma's will stop serving any kind of purpose on your normal colonies.

Thanks for taking the time to type all this out! It's super helpful -- I had thought gammas were basically just a 'trap' for new players, glad to see that's (not always 100%) the case.  ;D

Thanks I appreciate it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 03:53:06 PM by Hussar »
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Histidine

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Hussar

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I was under the impression that player markets no longer affect the global market size.

I'll have to boot up a new game with Shadowyards for a definite answer then. But the economy wasn't changed at it's core so it feels exactly the same as before.
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syke

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Thanks for this post, it explains everything well.

Unfortunately the current calculation is borked, there is no reasonable explanation for reducing the players income for using a bonus item.

A possible (easiest) fix is to calculate the "supplied in-faction percentage" out of the total non-modified in-faction demand met, rather than the after-gamma reduction demand. Making the divident here bigger, the in-faction met number, will give a slightly higher percentage. Super simple and just has to be capped at 100%.
This means every gamma core will contribute slightly, and contribute more when put on industries with lots of different demands, matching the player expectation (atleast mine here).

Any input on why this should not be a suggestion thread? Or even a bug report? Because it sure feels like a bug
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 03:03:17 PM by syke »
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Hussar

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Actually it appears that latest hotfix might have fixed the issue the way I'd hoped it would if that was addressed. Namely removing demand translating directly into % of demand met (so exactly what you've proposed). I just noticed that in my new game I've begun yesterday but it was one with a single colony. Still, it might be that Alex again had done some changes that weren't mentioned in the changelog. But for this one i'd be happy about if it would to be found true. I'm yet to verify that as honestly I wasn't doing any testing as of late - but something had been done as applying gamma cores doesn't change the global market values - thus it doesn't manipulate the prices either. Of course if we're playing with Nex we can influence that still by creating independent/other colonies that aren't under our banner - but that's entirely different topic.

Quote
Any input on why this should not be a suggestion thread? Or even a bug report? Because it sure feels like a bug
The intention of this thread (and having it linked on unofficial discord in the help section) was to help people understand and not loose money by using gammas. I myself are going to give feedback on that once my thoughts will settle in about this update - but I'm sure others had made their own feedback as well. Still that's a fair point but as said - the intent was to help people not make a petition. Hope you can understand.


EDIT: Actually no, I was wrong. The 'guide' does still hold true mostly from what I see in testing.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 03:20:18 AM by Hussar »
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SCC

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Having played 0.9.1 for some time, I feel that I should call gamma cores in industry a complete failure still. The biggest issue is that they provide upkeep reduction, which is also what beta cores do, but better, more reliably, without having a limit to their. Upkeep reduction is also something that is less needed after colony changes and, as a final nail in the coffin, gamma cores still attract pathers and AI inspections even for the meagre benefit they provide. The only fringe case I can think of that can make gamma cores useful is when the entire sector is after your head, you don't have enough beta cores and you need every little bit of import reduction to make your industries work. However, for most players, gamma cores are going to be more useful as money checks saved for a rainy day. Tri-Tachyon pays well for them.
I would like to see gamma cores either find a new purpose in their life or get dropped from supporting industries entirely, and for player colonies to contribute to the global market total value again.

Megas

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I would find turning in cores more useful for reputation bonus, especially if I want to make Pathers friendly.
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Hussar

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I really should be checking here more often. Damn u USS-Discord! Damn you! [shakes fists into the sky]

In the current economy? I have to agree.. If it was changed into more grounded one, tracking consumption and internal exports/imports before external - then that would fix gamma cores INSTANTLY. Which is gonna be (I think) a vaild point in my feedback that I'm currently writing (lol, finally - not that it matters, it's just a different viewpoint). Of course the topic of economy is something totally different.

Also the supposed scenario is more than hard to achieve because trade disruptions might still very well affect your gamma'ed industries and at this point ai-coring everything won't have that much of possible impact I think. The only real and newbie-friendly usage right now, would be for tech-mining outposts where an admin with Fleet Logistics 3 can help alleviate the deletion of starport, while we gamma up the Population & Infrastructure. Tech mining outposts like that can function just fine without suffering any negative penalties in most cases. Plus that GCAI is pretty disposable so nobody shall weep if we disband the colony via management screen - instead of going in person and taking the GCAI off by hand first.

And you know my opinion. I would like for economy to 'get a little more real' which would instantly do 2 things that Alex would want: fix gamma cores and make them actually and really useful and it would also curb the excessive moneymaking via exports. Which I think will get broken again if things like new comerce that can give +100% income bonus will become a thing. But let's not jump into that rabbit-hole here.

You know this wasn't the point of this post haha. But yeah, till somethings done to either GCAI itself or economy - I have to agree.
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