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Author Topic: Bring Plasma Cannon Back  (Read 2326 times)

SCC

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Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« on: May 07, 2019, 03:25:54 PM »

New Plasma Cannon is an arguably more versatile and easier to use weapon than the old one... But it just isn't the Plasma Cannon anymore and nothing else can fill that 1000x3 damage void in my heart. It would be nice if some other weapon was made to be the boring but effective energy weapon and Plasma Cannon was reinstated to its alpha-striking glory.

Megas

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 04:13:52 PM »

How about two-shots at 750 each?  It originally did 750 damage per shot, before it was upgraded to 1000 per shot.

However, I doubt Alex will do that.  Modern heavy energy seem to be designed that player is supposed to take Autopulse Laser/Expanded Magazines or Tachyon Lance if player wants alpha-strike, or HIL for anti-armor.  I liked old plasma cannon for 1) raw DPS and 2) anti-armor.  (I take Tachyon Lance for long-range and shield-piercing.)

I do not want the old plasma cannon back if it means no ship can use it except for vent-spamming playership with min-maxed flux stats, due to impractical flux costs.
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Alex

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 04:16:21 PM »

Yeah, Plasma Cannon kind of needs to be where it's at so it doesn't step on the HIL's toes as far as cracking armor; as is it's a middle of the road, ok-at-everything kind of weapon. Sorry :)
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Thaago

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2019, 04:38:56 PM »

I'm very happy with the new plasma cannon - Large Energy really needed a generalist brawling weapon with good enough efficiency and this does the trick really nicely.
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Megas

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 04:54:51 PM »

Yes, heavy energy needed a good brawling weapon.  Autopulse does not cut it against either tough targets that can withstand a burst or multiple opponents when one burst is only enough to kill one ship out of several.

Until 0.9a, heavy blaster was a competitive option for heavy energy mounts at simply mauling things, and that did not feel right when ballistics had a variety of effective large assault weapons clearly superior to medium ballistics.

I wish plasma cannon had better shot power, but the rapid-fire rocket launcher that is modern plasma cannon is effective enough.  At least it has something over Mjolnir (better DPS without being too hard to use).
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Vayra

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2019, 08:20:08 PM »

Heavy Heavy Blaster when
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
Vayra's Sector: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058
Vayra's Ship Pack: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16059

im gonna push jangala into the sun i swear to god im gonna do it

Retry

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2019, 09:20:08 PM »

I'm putting my vote in for new-Plasma.  Old plasma was just too flux hungry to be practical.  Having plasma cannons pointed at you is not as scary as it used to be, but honestly I think it trades that psychological impact for actual impact: It's a simple and effective (if not inexpensive) general-purpose weapon, and it fills that niche extremely well.  I'd say it's even deadlier than old plasma, all things considered, just because ships can actually use it.
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TaLaR

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2019, 09:37:46 PM »

Beside being a solid weapon overall, new plasma is the best manual PD: due to combination of decent fire rate and passthrough it can very efficiently counter massed fighters and overwhelm-type missile weapons like squalls, annihilators or bombs. With optimal positioning it doesn't even cost you anything since shots hit enemy ship after their passthrough run.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 09:40:20 PM by TaLaR »
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Morgan Rue

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2019, 11:04:00 PM »

Plasma Cannon is, unfortunately, better in it's current state as an oversized Pulse Laser than it was as an absurdly high damage burst weapon.

As fun as High Energy Focus Plasma Cannon volleys were, the current Plasma Cannon is overall better and more usable on a larger number of ships than the old Plasma Cannon was. Though it might be a bit expensive, compared to Heavy Blasters. Not certain.
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Dauntless.

AxleMC131

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 11:13:25 PM »

Yeah, Plasma Cannon kind of needs to be where it's at so it doesn't step on the HIL's toes as far as cracking armor; as is it's a middle of the road, ok-at-everything kind of weapon. Sorry :)

If I may just raise my hand here and point out that the High Intensity Laser is not a particularly engaging weapon? It's dull to use and extremely binary - you either do very little to shields or you obliterate armour, on a sustained, constant fire beam of very long range. I reckon it'd be more interesting as a burst weapon, or just a basic energy beam with some kind of onHit effect that does a little extra damage to armour, to close the disparity a little. Maybe even occaisional random bursts of extra damage, like how the Ion Beam does its EMP arcs?

Do note this is only partially my opinion - a few folks on the Discord have said they find the HIL a pretty poor weapon concept. But I am inclined to agree with them (and I think this is an okay point to bring it up again). Large weapons shouldn't just hurt good, they should feel good while doing it. The HIL is honestly pretty mediochre, and as such is a weapon I tend to shy away from, despite it being excellent at breaking armour.
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SCC

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2019, 02:04:45 AM »

I do agree that new plasma cannon is a more practical weapon, but at the same time it became more mundane, less scary. It lost its soul. It was a pretty scary thing in hands of ships with HEF. I have a feeling that it's overcosted currently, in comparison to Heavy Blaster; it costs a bit over two and a half times as much as it and Heavy Blaster can actually be more flux efficient if you spend OP on HB+vents, instead of PC. There is also the thing that sometimes, fun isn't about being optimal, it's about using something wildly impractical just because it's possible.
HIL is a better weapon, since the difference is that it does nothing when doesn't have to do well and it does amazing when it's in its element.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 02:19:48 AM by SCC »
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goduranus

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2019, 02:08:07 AM »

Suggestion: The Thread Title isn’t flamboyant enough, change thread title to “Make Plasma Cannon Great Again!!” MPCGA  :o

Schwartz

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2019, 02:29:14 AM »

There's nothing exciting about continuous beams but they do work well. I use HIL all the time. I use the new Plasma Cannon all the time. The old Plasma Cannon was pretty much unusable. They're both fine as they are now.

If HIL doesn't tickle your excitement button, there's always Tachyon Lance.
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HELMUT

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2019, 03:09:51 AM »

I also miss the old plasma cannon. Although the new one is arguably better, more efficient, more reliable, safer. But firing what is basically a heavy pulse laser doesn't quite have the panache of the space BFG of old.

One of my most vivid Starsector memory was the first time i encountered a quad Plasma cannon Paragon. It was with Dynasector since variant randomisation wasn't a thing yet. I was used to bully standard Paragons variants with an Onslaught. And that day, i faced it, with its four big guns, slowly turning to face me.

"I think i should be able to take it, i'll go close to it and... Yeah, yeah, nope, no, definitely not! Change of tactics! Oh @$%& this isn't going as planned!"

It's not often when getting fired upon by a gun was a cathartic as firing it. Despite my nostalgia for the old BFG, i'm pretty okay if the new one stay. Moreover, if i'm really craving for something big, expensive, unwieldy that shoot death, some mods added their own plasma cannon variants that also scratch that same itch.
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Megas

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Re: Bring Plasma Cannon Back
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2019, 05:54:21 AM »

HIL is basically an anti-pirate/anti-shieldless ship weapon, which is great when the most important endgame enemies are pirates and pathers due to them ignoring colony defenses.  (Major factions must beat colony patrols and defenses before they can do anything bad.)  When major factions become the primary enemies like they used to be, then HIL may not be so great.  HIL will tear through vulnerable ships fast, which pirates and pathers have a lot of.  Major factions and Remnants, not so much.  HIL will also tear your ships apart if your ships are forced to drop shields, especially while fighting a Remnant Nexus.

Against major factions, Tachyon Lance is more effective than HIL overall.  HIL when combined with Ion Beam becomes poor-man's Tachyon Lance that is not as good as the real thing.

I agree modern plasma cannon feels like an oversized pulse laser.  It also feels a bit like a rapid-fire heavy blaster.  While plasma cannon does not feel very powerful for its cost, I cannot deny it is significantly more effective - and more forgiving to use - than before.

I would not mind a new large energy weapon the fires a large shot that does big damage and some area-of-effect (like BFG9K is to plasma cannon).  Perhaps a large version of the antimatter blaster with AoE, maybe something similar to the main gun of Blackrock's Nevermore.
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