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Author Topic: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs  (Read 768318 times)

Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #120 on: May 20, 2019, 10:45:26 PM »

Starship Legends 1.1.5 (BETA)

Fixed Field Repairs 1 and 2 affecting the calculation of sustained damage
Fixed friendly fire to player ships being counted as dealt damage
Fixed damage against some enemy ships not being recorded (hopefully)
The battle report now lists loyalty levels (in gray) even when there was no change in loyalty
Reduced effect multipliers for all trait tiers:
   Notable    4 -> 3
   Well-known    6 -> 4
   Famous    8 -> 5
   Legendary    10 -> 6
Trait effect multiplier for Fiercly Loyal reduced from 3 to 2
Trait effect multiplier for Openly Insubordinate increased from -3 to -2
Adjusted loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference
Adjusted CR decay rate effects from loyalty:
   Openly Insubordinate 75 -> 100
   Insubordinate    50 -> 50
   Doubtful    25 -> 25
   Indifferent    0 -> 0
   Confident    -25 -> -20
   Loyal    -50 -> -35
   Fiercely Loyal    -75 -> -50
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:50:09 PM by Sundog »
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Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #121 on: May 21, 2019, 01:34:16 PM »

This version feels more balanced for sure. I still shouldn't talk since I use it with RNG off, oh well. ;)

Still getting the odd situation where damage is not being recorded. This was a station battle with 3 Doom vs a pirate station. All 3 did a decent amount of damage, but only one (flagship) is shown.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 01:41:27 PM by Schwartz »
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #122 on: May 21, 2019, 02:22:58 PM »

Glad to hear that it feels more balanced. It's a shame the damage recording bug is still a thing. Thanks for letting me know. Think you could send me a log file including that battle?

Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #123 on: May 21, 2019, 03:40:56 PM »

This should be the entire battle.

Spoiler
Code
7065729 [Thread-4] INFO  org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin  - Chatter plugin initialized
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - broadsword - 6e93b635-2acd-46ad-95d8-5d689e001a0d - 0df439e4-e448-4cbe-81a7-3cbf4937846f
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - 9f05e777-22ff-475f-93bc-2d346be593e8 - 0df439e4-e448-4cbe-81a7-3cbf4937846f
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - c06e40ee-3f41-44a6-8762-6cb45135606a - 300a2600-bf87-4872-8cfc-10568127abe5
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - 3e6286b8-1558-4b13-b52b-c735eebd4ae9 - 300a2600-bf87-4872-8cfc-10568127abe5
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by module_large2_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by piranha (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by module_large1_lowtech (1)
      module_large1_lowtech dealt 1115.9482/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 128.24675/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 1064.6503/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 10079.759/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 6134.0225/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 5471.8047/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 7389.35/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 40000.0/40000.0 damage to station1 (1)
      Total FP worth of damage: 50.0
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 3737.7083/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 2347.597/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 2530.891/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Peekaboo (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 1.4285715 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - FAILED
    Chance to Shuffle a Trait Better: 25% - SUCCEEDED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Virbius (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 0.0 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - SUCCEEDED
    Bonus Chance: 64% - SUCCEEDED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Memory Of Mairaath (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 0.0 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - FAILED
    Chance to Shuffle a Trait Better: 14% - FAILED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Honduras (Heron)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Roger Moore (Heron)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Augustus (Dominator (XIV))FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Foundation (Apogee)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Longinus (Eagle (XIV))FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Raptor (Drover)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Hive (Drover)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Prosperity (Sunder)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Angkor Wat (Sunder)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Bloodhound (Afflictor)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Argyle (Afflictor)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Hungry Raven (Colossus)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Marmite (Phaeton)FAILED
7154525 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bases.PirateBaseIntel  - Removing pirate base at [Penelope's Star Star System]
[close]
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #124 on: May 21, 2019, 04:24:43 PM »

Awesome. Thank you! That log turned out to be very enlightening. It looks like this is actually an entirely different issue related to stations (and other ships with multiple parts). Damage to the sections was uncounted because the API (sensibly) says they cost 0 supplies to deploy. Your flagship got all the credit because it landed the killing blow.

Feedback: I dearly love the ability to not mind taking hull damage as long as I murderate the enemy enough. My crew apparently are rather bloodthirsty.
Glad to hear it! I was worried that I had made the damage bonus too low for NPC ships to take advantage of.

This mod unfortunately has the side effect of long-lasting negatives applying to ship losses. It makes savescumming more attractive again. Whether people do that or not, well.. up to them.
Yeah, absolutely. The addition of the anti-save-scum mechanic to ruthless sector was actually in response to Meso bringing up that same concern.

The mod incentivizes having all ships be combat-able, and using all ships in your fleet for fear of reserves being struck by bad RNG.
Negative traits on logistics ships doesn't seem like something so worthy of fear to me. They tend to be fairly insignificant, and replacing logistics ships tends to be cheap. If a freighter ends up with fuel guzzler or something you can always sell it off or mothball it to reset it's reputation. The advantage of eventually ending up with a replacement that has a good reputation seems more than worth it to me.

Bonus chance randomness: Heavily reduced from 0.5 to maybe 0.1-0.2
I think the current system is too easy to game without a decent amount of randomness, but I see where you're coming from. I think RNG can be really fun sometimes, but often it's used as a crutch, and I think that's the case with how starship legends handles the bonus/malus rolls. I think I have a way to make the whole system more satisfying while improving on other aspects of the mod that I find lacking. I need to think through it a little more first, but I'll probably post about it here soon.

Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #125 on: May 21, 2019, 06:15:33 PM »

Yet Another Planned Change to How the Mod Decides if a Trait is Good or Bad
Every ship will have a persistent combat rating that affects the ratio of good to bad traits.
With a combat rating of 0%, a ship would have nothing but bad traits. With 100%, all traits would be good.
Traits would gradually shift to have a good/bad ratio equal to the rating of the ship.
Ships would get a combat rating for each battle they participate in, which would be calculated the same way bonus chance currently is.
Combat rating for battles would adjust the ship's persistent rating based on how much xp the battle awarded.

Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #126 on: May 21, 2019, 06:50:04 PM »

So the difference I see is that currently, there is no advantage to pushing your performance beyond a certain point. That point being the cutoff of RNG. So if RNG is set to 1.0 and your damage dealt exceeds the equivalent of 1.01 points, you're guaranteed not to get a negative trait. Then further up there's a point where you're guaranteed a positive trait.

With the change, all ships will compete as damage dealers all the time. It's likely that most fleet ships will not get a 100% track record but settle at a point with a few negative traits. Also likely that the flagship will get 100%. This could work out okay. Edit: One positive I forgot. This'll encourage deploying less ships to get higher scores. On the condition that reserve ships don't get graded.

What you're losing is the immediate feedback of a positive shift for a battle well fought and a negative shift for a screw-up. You kinda get them, but accounted for with an average score that moves slowly over a period of time.

It could end up being more forgiving, and in a fully buffed legendary ship there's little point in the shifting around of traits except for a bit of gambling fun to see the best traits move up anyway.

So there's some advantages, some disadvantages. As the mod strives to become more fair overall, we see it also distance itself a bit from the 'fun' ideal of.. "I saw one of my allies take a risk and take out a tough foe, now it's got determined crew and an armor bonus." Or "I decloaked right into a barrage and now my crew thinks the phase coil's busted." Moments of excellence are very hard to quantify by algorithm.

I'd say go for it, but keep the current algorithm on standby in case it doesn't play out. I'm quite happy with it as it is, and with the various variables exposed in the .ini there's a lot of room for customization.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 07:45:30 AM by Schwartz »
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #127 on: May 21, 2019, 09:43:11 PM »

Starship Legends 1.1.6 (BETA)

Fixed failure to credit carriers with the damage dealt by their fighters (again)
[This was reintroduced in the last patch]
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:53:44 PM by Sundog »
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DrakonST

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #128 on: May 22, 2019, 02:44:20 AM »

When it be moved to "Mods"?
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Hussar

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #129 on: May 22, 2019, 03:55:12 AM »

When it be moved to "Mods"?

An excellent question.
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frozentoes

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #130 on: May 22, 2019, 08:07:12 AM »

Every ship will have a persistent combat rating that affects the ratio of good to bad traits.

If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #131 on: May 22, 2019, 01:39:39 PM »

What you're losing is the immediate feedback of a positive shift for a battle well fought and a negative shift for a screw-up. You kinda get them, but accounted for with an average score that moves slowly over a period of time.
True, but that immediacy (in conjunction with RNG) has some serious downsides. If a ship does well in a large battle without getting a good trait, but then gets a bad trait in the next battle due to sub-par performance, it could be pretty frustrating. With the rating system, immediate feedback would be in the form of adjustments to a ships rating (which would be shown in battle reports).

As the mod strives to become more fair overall, we see it also distance itself a bit from the 'fun' ideal of.. "I saw one of my allies take a risk and take out a tough foe, now it's got determined crew and an armor bonus." Or "I decloaked right into a barrage and now my crew thinks the phase coil's busted." Moments of excellence are very hard to quantify by algorithm.
True, and that's a good point that I hadn't considered. The RNG of the current system reflects the fickleness of gossip, but this system wouldn't do that so well. I think the relationship between combat rating and traits would be under-the-hood enough not to completely subvert that impression.

I'd say go for it, but keep the current algorithm on standby in case it doesn't play out.
Oh, for sure. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to keep the current system as a setting.

When it be moved to "Mods"?

An excellent question.
I'll request that it be moved to the Mods subforum (and I'll stop calling it a BETA) once I'm fairly confident that the design goals have been met and that all bugs of any significance have been fixed. Basically, once its core features are "done."

If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
That sounds like it might actually be exactly what I had in mind:
new_persistent_rating = old_persistent_rating * 0.9 + battle_rating * 0.1

Hussar

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #132 on: May 22, 2019, 04:00:47 PM »

If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
That sounds like it might actually be exactly what I had in mind:
new_persistent_rating = old_persistent_rating * 0.9 + battle_rating * 0.1

Could this perhaps be tied to fleet performance too? I mean, it is possible to loose bad traits, it is however quite hard thing to do for an dedicated PD escorts? So perhaps victories in hard battles could influence that even if the pd boat iteself haven't really did much damage? Unless shooting down missles and fightercraft is counted towards that already?

I'll request that it be moved to the Mods subforum (and I'll stop calling it a BETA) once I'm fairly confident that the design goals have been met and that all bugs of any significance have been fixed. Basically, once its core features are "done."
I respect that :P
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #133 on: May 23, 2019, 10:08:59 AM »

I'm starting to think traits should have some common meta effect, so that cumulating both negative and positive traits contributes toward the same meta effect.

What I'm thinking about is for them to amplify relationship changes: you have a fleet of legendary ships, all relationship changes are increased (especially negative ones) because your fleet is so well known.

It would also naturaly makes transponder off less effective for obvious reasons. On the flip side great deeds could get rewarded even more especially when joining an ungoing battle to save a fleet or when attacking a market.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #134 on: May 23, 2019, 02:22:55 PM »

Could this perhaps be tied to fleet performance too? I mean, it is possible to loose bad traits, it is however quite hard thing to do for an dedicated PD escorts? So perhaps victories in hard battles could influence that even if the pd boat iteself haven't really did much damage? Unless shooting down missles and fightercraft is counted towards that already?
So this reasoning is why battle difficulty contributes to bonus chance and there's a threshold before damage dealt counts. Battle difficulty basically awards "participation points" to every ship, no matter what role it fills (like PD, which isn't tracked). Damage dealers only earn extra if they go above and beyond. It's certainly not a perfect way to calculate how effective a ship was during battle, but I don't think it has any significant downsides.

I'm starting to think traits should have some common meta effect, so that cumulating both negative and positive traits contributes toward the same meta effect.

What I'm thinking about is for them to amplify relationship changes: you have a fleet of legendary ships, all relationship changes are increased (especially negative ones) because your fleet is so well known.

It would also naturaly makes transponder off less effective for obvious reasons. On the flip side great deeds could get rewarded even more especially when joining an ungoing battle to save a fleet or when attacking a market.
That would certainly make a lot of sense. If you wanted to pretend to be someone else I'd imagine one of the best ways to do so would be to use a completely different fleet. On the other hand, this mechanic might be difficult to relay in-game, and I'm having a hard time thinking of ways it would improve gameplay, other than the potential to occasionally encourage diversity in fleet compositions.
Another concern I have is that I would need to overwrite all the vanilla code dealing with relations changes, which would be pretty messy. Do you know if there are any more straightforward ways to adjust relationship influence?
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