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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs  (Read 769049 times)

Ali

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #105 on: May 19, 2019, 02:19:55 AM »

Anyone know what setting i would need to adjust to have each trait given be its best version so as to avoid +4% armour for 1 ship & +7% for another?

Many thanks
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Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #106 on: May 19, 2019, 04:33:12 AM »

I would guess you have to set "effectMultiplier":10, on every tier.
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Ali

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #107 on: May 19, 2019, 05:25:24 AM »

ah much appreciated schwartz, will giv tht a try.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #108 on: May 19, 2019, 07:25:41 AM »

Known Issue: Damage still isn't always being recorded correctly. I need to do more testing to confirm, but it looks like damage is only awarded against recoverable enemy ships. I think this was introduced in the 1.1.3 patch due to the new way of detecting the end of battles. I'm hoping to get a patch out today.

Anyone know what setting i would need to adjust to have each trait given be its best version so as to avoid +4% armour for 1 ship & +7% for another?
Schwartz is correct. Trait effectiveness is also modified by officer loyalty. If you don't want it to be, you can set
the "trait_adjustment" column to 0 for each row in "/sun_sl/data/loyalty_levels.csv"
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:59:09 AM by Sundog »
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Ali

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #109 on: May 19, 2019, 11:46:19 AM »

Many thanks for makin this so end user adjustable!!  ;D
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Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #110 on: May 19, 2019, 12:49:23 PM »

As hard as I try, I can't get the negative traits to go away or even lessen in significance even though I have been diligent about only using these Afflictors when they can grab a solid plus.

On top of that, the negative trait has crept its way up the ladder without me ever having gotten a post-combat notification mentioning it. It's always another trait that gets buffed, yet this one has definitely moved as well. Is this working as intended? I.e. the negative trait was on 'well-known' level before I put the Afflictor aside and started only using it for bountiful chase scenarios. It should have only gotten better since then, but the trait got worse. This is with 0 randomness.

I'm not complaining if this is how it works, it just struck me as odd.

Spoiler
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Come to think of it.. I've had situations where the post-combat log says trait X has improved, but when I look at the ship trait X is still on 'notable'. Edit: Caught it!

Spoiler
[close]
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 01:22:36 PM by Schwartz »
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #111 on: May 19, 2019, 04:23:47 PM »

Many thanks for makin this so end user adjustable!!  ;D
You bet  :)
There have been plenty of times that I've been petty enough to shelve a mod or game just because there was one aspect of it that I couldn't "fix."

@Schwartz: So the way trait prominence changes work is basically by making the chosen trait swap places with one immediately above or below it, regardless of tier. So your overclocked targeting unit example would be working as intended if it was on the very bottom of the trait list before the prominence change. As for your Afflictor, negative traits can move up because positive ones move down, but that wouldn't apply here if it hasn't had any bad prominence changes. The only thing that would bump up that negative trait in that case is the addition of new traits. I'll pay closer attention while play-testing to see if I can catch a trait in the act of not doing what it says it's doing.

Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #112 on: May 19, 2019, 05:31:39 PM »

Yeah, the Afflictor has had 8 traits for a long time and the negative trait has moved up. So unless the trait right above it went down a level instead, I would have to have read about the negative trait being promoted.

Alright, I think I get how this works now. It's just a list of eight separated into groups of two. So doing well over a longer period of time should eventually replace all negative traits downward. It's a pretty neat system.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 05:36:16 PM by Schwartz »
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ArthropodOfDoom

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #113 on: May 19, 2019, 10:12:14 PM »

There's something funky going on with the way damage is awarded after a single REDACTED station battle, I just defeated one with a fleet of four each Apogees, Atlases, and Herons, and I saw 438% damage awarded to a single Heron, although every ship obviously contributed. Let me know what you would like me to upload to help debug, although I do have ~10 other mods.
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Let's say I'm captaining the ISS Slightly Lopsided Isosceles Triangle here.

Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #114 on: May 20, 2019, 07:19:33 AM »

It's just a list of eight separated into groups of two. So doing well over a longer period of time should eventually replace all negative traits downward.
Yep, exactly. Any ship that gets a bonusChance above 45% should have zero chance for a bad trait adjustment.

Let me know what you would like me to upload to help debug, although I do have ~10 other mods.
If I could get your log file (or the last few hundred lines of it from right after that fight) and a screenshot of your battle report it would be a great help. The cause of these damage reporting issues has proven to be pretty difficult to pin down...

Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #115 on: May 20, 2019, 08:31:01 AM »

Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
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Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #116 on: May 20, 2019, 08:51:47 AM »

It's not peak performance time, so.. I find even with a fiercely loyal crew the CR loss feels fast enough that I don't push my luck.

And generally when you do well and you only gather positive traits, they are overall quite powerful. It's not this specific one. I'd argue a legendary-level peak performane time boost is way better than crew level.
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Sundog

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #117 on: May 20, 2019, 09:47:56 AM »

How much do you all think starship legends (with default settings) affects the overall game difficulty for a player of average skill? I know that's hard to estimate considering how many of us are vets, but I'm just trying to get a better general idea.

Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Yeah, I think perhaps it is. I think I'll reduce it from 75% to 50%, which would double instead of quadruple operational time after PPT. It's supposed to be hard to get max loyalty. I think I'll also adjust loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference.

It's not peak performance time, so.. I find even with a fiercely loyal crew the CR loss feels fast enough that I don't push my luck.

And generally when you do well and you only gather positive traits, they are overall quite powerful. It's not this specific one. I'd argue a legendary-level peak performane time boost is way better than crew level.
I tend to think of PPT as more important than CR decay as well, which is part of how I justify high CR adjustments for loyalty. With the current settings, however, the operational time after PPT at "fiercely loyal" is double that of "loyal," which I think is a bit excessive.

Schwartz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #118 on: May 20, 2019, 10:15:34 AM »

The problem is that skill is hard to quantify in a game where you can savescum. Let's assume the player is not a masochist and likes to win his engagements. Let's also assume that he can take the occasional friendly ship blowing up since in this version money comes easily and redoing fights is tedious.

This mod unfortunately has the side effect of long-lasting negatives applying to ship losses. It makes savescumming more attractive again. Whether people do that or not, well.. up to them.

On default settings it's probably a toss-up. I had a big fleet and fought a small skirmish with just a few frigates. Afterwards there were a bunch of negatives handed out for reserved ships. This turned me off of a few settings which I changed. If I had not changed them, I think positives and negatives would end up being heavily tilted towards random. The mod incentivizes having all ships be combat-able, and using all ships in your fleet for fear of reserves being struck by bad RNG.

If it was up to me, I'd make these settings the default:

Trait chance multiplier for all reserved ships: 0
Bonus chance randomness: Heavily reduced from 0.5 to maybe 0.1-0.2
I would also reduce the magnitude of all traits on all levels to about half of what it is now. The outliers currently are either very strong buffs or very strong nerfs, neither of which I think are desirable for a system that is largely based on reputation & psychology. If fights are too easy, you get bored. If your fleet is screwed, you don't need to get screwed harder. ;)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 10:17:57 AM by Schwartz »
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Thaago

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Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
« Reply #119 on: May 20, 2019, 10:42:08 AM »

Quote
Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Yeah, I think perhaps it is. I think I'll reduce it from 75% to 50%, which would double instead of quadruple operational time after PPT. It's supposed to be hard to get max loyalty. I think I'll also adjust loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference.

I think this is a good change - 75% on top of Hardened Subsystems makes SO ships that exceed their PPT have quite a long lifetime. Not crazy, but its noticeable and perhaps too welcome.

Feedback: I dearly love the ability to not mind taking hull damage as long as I murderate the enemy enough. My crew apparently are rather bloodthirsty.
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