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[Zelnik]

So I was on my way to my home system when a positively GIGANTIC number of pirate ships just spawned in front of me, like, 20 armadas. they all jump me, and now I am counting 30 ships or more in each battle against my fleet, where I get a lowly 200 fleet points to defend myself... Generally speaking, I don't see this as winnable, what gives?!

[Alex]

I've toned these down and generally changed how it works for the .1 release, yeah. It's a bit much to get hit with these fairly randomly (since it's probably just a raid on its way somewhere). You can always run, though, and I would suggest it in this case

[Zelnik]

run where? The 'raid' takes up the whole screen, and generally speaking they are so huge that it's like doing a square dance in a mine field!

[Alex]

I mean run in the "attempt to disengage" sense, if your fleet is small enough that that's an option. (Let me move this to suggestions, btw, since we're not really looking at a bug here.)

[Megas]

This happened to me once.  Jumped into a system... in the middle of multiple pirate fleets on their way out, and they pounced on my fleet before I could get out.  Since my endgame fleet was too big, I could not disengage, and I had no choice but to fight the 300+ enemy ship pileup.  (Rather than reload, I fought them because it was amusing.)  Lost all of my warships, but not before taking out all of theirs.  Then it became a standoff between civilians.  They just would not retreat their civilians, and we had to deploy.  What happened was they deploy a bunch of civilians, then retreat.  Eventually, they lost due to running out of CR and self-destructing.  After many deploy-and-retreat fake outs, they finally tried to disengage.

It would be nice to know how powerful the enemies are on the other side.  With an endgame fleet, nearly all enemies detected are meaningless since your super fleet can effortlessly destroy whatever is on the other hand, but the multi-hundred ship pileup is an exception.  But the warning does not tell you if the enemy is a small fleet that you can rollover or a gigantic multi-fleet pileup.

[xenoargh]

Don't nerf this too heavily, please.  I'd rather that the "nerf" be "won't generate right on top of players", which may be un-fun, rather than, "game won't generate Big Raids".

I really enjoy destroying large raiding forces, honestly, and was happy to see them finally be a thing in Vanilla

[Null Ganymede]

Fleet battles that strain logistics (hit-and-runs with accelerated repairs, re-deploying, retreat-and-deploy, supply deficits due to piled on armor damage) are rare and awesome and fun. Vanilla needs more.

Surprise deathtraps are kind of mean though. Just encourages save-scumming.

[Megas]

I would not mind as long as the individual fleets obey the fleet limit.  (No single fleet with more than 30 ships.)  As for death traps on the other side of a gate, when the warning is useless because your endgame fleet can easily kill any other single fleet, additional information about numbers or relative strength would be nice.

[Megas]

More details on my encounter with pirates.  I went to take out a pirate base (before they raid and decivilize a core world).  Before I went in, I saw three or so pirate fleets in hyperspace.  I went into the gate.  Got a warning, but did not think it would be unusual, just one, two, or three fleets my endgame fleet could rollover easily.  After going in, I saw a swarm of fleets, and some of them clearly broke the fleet limit.  They converged on my fleet as I gated in, and by the time I could move, instant encounter with 300+ enemy ships.

[Plantissue]

It wouldn't help that much when you are jumping in and out of system, but when you are in hyperspace, perhaps the sensor reading for all the fleets can be combined together. Afterall, they are travelling together; you should be able to detect them as if they are the combined total of ships in one fleet.

[Megas]

It wouldn't help that much when you are jumping in and out of system, but when you are in hyperspace, perhaps the sensor reading for all the fleets can be combined together. Afterall, they are travelling together; you should be able to detect them as if they are the combined total of ships in one fleet.

I did not see enough fleets in hyperspace to confirm a pirate raid, and if I see so many that I thought it was a raid, it probably means most of the raiders gated out and my fleet gating in to avoid the raiders and take out the pirate base would be safe enough.

I saw few fleets instead, probably the few first of the raid that gated out earlier.  It could have been the routine patrols instead.  After I gated in, I saw many fleets that promptly converged in while my fleet was materializing.  I saw the alert before gating in, which I assumed was no worse than two or three big fleets that my endgame fleet would smash effortlessly.

Alerts are not useful when the player's fleet is big and strong enough to kill anything, except maybe a gigantic pileup of multiple fleets that rarely happens.

[Lucky33]

So I was on my way to my home system when a positively GIGANTIC number of pirate ships just spawned in front of me, like, 20 armadas. they all jump me, and now I am counting 30 ships or more in each battle against my fleet, where I get a lowly 200 fleet points to defend myself... Generally speaking, I don't see this as winnable, what gives?!

This is the typical situation. Its actually not that scary. But you have to optimize your forces accordingly.

[Lucky33]

Don't nerf this too heavily, please.  I'd rather that the "nerf" be "won't generate right on top of players", which may be un-fun, rather than, "game won't generate Big Raids".

I really enjoy destroying large raiding forces, honestly, and was happy to see them finally be a thing in Vanilla

I concur. Pirate nerf coupled with default fleet size fix will most likely make the game extremely easy.

[xenoargh]

Yeah, I'd honestly rather see Pirates not get nerfed and Faction fleets fixed up.

[Megas]

I like to see all NPCs obey any metagame fleet limits the player is bound to.  If pirates want an overwhelming force, make dozens of 30 ship fleet bubbles, not a dozen or so with 40, 60, or even 100+ ships per bubble.  I guess that is why pirates and pathers are getting hacked capitals in the next release, for fewer but stronger ships.

If a big pirate or salvager fleet bubble can have more than 100 ships, why can't my fleet have that many ships?  Similarly, how come my patrols from my size 9 or 10 colony can have more ships than mine?