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Author Topic: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?  (Read 12493 times)

FreedomFighter

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2019, 07:32:35 AM »

I thought Solar Shielding is currently bugged and has no effect on Hyperspace Storm?
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MajorTheRed

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2019, 08:40:25 AM »

It doesn't prevent effect of storm but reduce the CR loss. Instead of dropping to 0-5% CR, it goes down to 30-40% CR based on my experience. Mostly usefull on support ships, for some some reasons my civilians ships seems to attract more CR drop from storms than my combat ships.
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FreedomFighter

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2019, 10:34:40 AM »

Ya, my tanker got hit once and drop to 10%. At least it is good that the game prioritize civie ship first. Else your mainline ship turn into potato and unable to fight.

I wish Campaign hullmod doesn't cost any OP at all but you can only pick two of them.
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Plantissue

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2019, 04:31:53 AM »

Seems rather pointless to me. You can always just buy another ship. It's only really useful if you got a full 30 ship fleet.
What another ship?

Most of the stuff I like to use is the rare stuff I need to raid markets for their blueprints.  If I have all of the blueprints I want to replace everything I want, and enough Heavy Industries to produce capitals in a month, I probably have already won the game due to all of the grinding I need to do to get everything.  Plenty of best stuff, especially capitals and high-grade weapons, is not on the common tech packs.


Solar shielding is good, as well as surveying.  Survey is often the #2 hullmod after Efficiency Overhaul on my faster non-combat ships, and occasionally combat ships too.  I probably would use solar shielding if I want to grind Remnants.  Yes, solar shielding for storm riding can be good too, and I have done that when I found Solar Shielding early and not enough of everything else yet.

That you playing your own particular play style has no bearing on anybody else's choice. If you want to extend range, you can always just buy another fuel or cargo ship. If you want to use less fuels and supplies, and is willing to make all your combat ships weaker for it, you might as well choose to have less combat ships. You pigeon holed yourself into your own choices by your own restrictive playstyle. Don't act as if your one and only playstyle is the only effective and fun playstyle, as if your opinion is the sole truth.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 01:22:16 PM by Plantissue »
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Megas

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2019, 06:12:28 AM »

@ Plantissue:  If you are referring to me, then the point of the topic is me wondering if more people think Efficiency Overhaul is so good that everyone takes.  I think it is very good, and when it was first released, people thought it might have been overpowered enough to dominate options.  Apparently, after months, it does not seem as dominating as first thought.

As for buying more ships, there comes a point that is no longer a viable option either because of fleet limits or extreme consumption.  (Multiple capitals eat a lot!)

If player does not have Navigation 3, then Efficiency Overhaul is very useful.  After seeing other builds, it appears I am in the minority of not taking it.  I would like it, but... not enough points.

Quote
Don't act as if your one and only playstyle is the only effective and fun playstyle, as if your opinion is the sole truth.
Why not?  I have opinions, even if others disagree.  This sounds like "Shut up!  Your opinion sucks and I do not want to hear or read it!"  Sorry, nice try.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 06:18:58 AM by Megas »
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Igncom1

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2019, 06:39:31 AM »

I only tend to use it when I don't need anything else.

If i'm out on long range surveying and salvaging missions then I have sensors and survey equipment on my ships. Otherwise it's whatever battle mods I am currently playing around with at the time.

Managing supplies to money is never too bad once you get the hang of it, particularly on easy mode or with a colony in your pocket.
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Thaago

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2019, 09:23:31 AM »

I never use it because I have more important things to put on ships. Civilian ships lack the OP to have more than a few hullmods and EO does not make the cut.

Efficiency is nice, but not all that important. If I feel like I need more supplies or fuel for a trip... I buy a transport or tanker and put supplies/fuel into them. Early game, before I have a reserve pot of money, fleets are small enough that a single dram and buffalo will get you most of the way to the fringe.
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MajorTheRed

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2019, 10:34:29 AM »

In a way, I see the point of Megas:
I don't use EO because 9/10 times I take Navigation 3 and Fleet logistics 2. Half my game I play scavengers (love it!) so got the perk were D-mod reduce supply cost apply all the time, and you get more fuel after battle. So I don't take EO because I nearly always have perks which have similar effect.
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Plantissue

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2019, 01:21:46 PM »

@ Plantissue:  If you are referring to me, then the point of the topic is me wondering if more people think Efficiency Overhaul is so good that everyone takes.  I think it is very good, and when it was first released, people thought it might have been overpowered enough to dominate options.  Apparently, after months, it does not seem as dominating as first thought.

As for buying more ships, there comes a point that is no longer a viable option either because of fleet limits or extreme consumption.  (Multiple capitals eat a lot!)

If player does not have Navigation 3, then Efficiency Overhaul is very useful.  After seeing other builds, it appears I am in the minority of not taking it.  I would like it, but... not enough points.

Quote
Don't act as if your one and only playstyle is the only effective and fun playstyle, as if your opinion is the sole truth.
Why not?  I have opinions, even if others disagree.  This sounds like "Shut up!  Your opinion sucks and I do not want to hear or read it!"  Sorry, nice try.
I meant to quote you. I'll edit my post for clarity. Opinions are fine, but you don't have to act as if yours is the only truth, especially when you are playing under your own restrictions. I'll leave it to others to decide what they think the intention of my words are.
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Flying Birdy

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2019, 01:45:28 PM »

In a way, I see the point of Megas:
I don't use EO because 9/10 times I take Navigation 3 and Fleet logistics 2. Half my game I play scavengers (love it!) so got the perk were D-mod reduce supply cost apply all the time, and you get more fuel after battle. So I don't take EO because I nearly always have perks which have similar effect.

I'm much the same as you, where my fleets are already halved in supply usage due to their 3+ dmods and also logistics 2. Simultaneously, the ships where I really could use this hull-mod on are my primary combat ships that are already OP-taxed from augmented drives (and thus does not have OP to spare) or are used so rarely in specialized fleet busting roles that the savings from the hull-mod don't make a difference. So most of my primary cruisers and capitals will probably never touch this efficiency overhaul.

It would be interesting to try out on my 9-Burn fleets though. I still pick augmented drives over efficiency overhaul on capitals to so they are not moving at the pace of a snail. But I can imagine this being useful on things like tempests that get deployed twice in a battle (one time for the actual battle and another for pursuit). I can see the CR recovery bonus become really useful. And it fits well too since tempest do not need other logistics mods, not even augmented drives because of their 11-burn speed.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 01:47:29 PM by Flying Birdy »
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Megas

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2019, 07:13:31 PM »

I get Fleet Logistics (3 is great for combat), but I cannot get Navigation without giving up some other skill I want just as badly or more, usually Officer Management or another combat skill I want.  I could give up colony skills, but I like ruling a multi-colony empire and the only ways to do that are either skills or alpha cores, and most games, I do not find enough alpha cores.  (I do not want to rely on the freebie from the tech cache in case Alex adds a real penalty in a future release.)

Without Navigation, I need four tugs instead of two to get burn 20 with a big fleet that includes some burn 8 capitals and cruisers, and my fuel range with big ships is not much (no Navigation bonuses kind of hurt), and I want big ships if I want to survive tougher fights like Remnants, Pather-infested systems, or the rare 300+ pirate ship pileup.  At the very least, I want enough peak performance to last the whole fight, and only bigger ships have enough.  I suppose with colony skills, the main benefit is more pop-up colonies at well-placed locations to dock at and refuel.  (In practice, extra colonies get dedicated to tech mine planets dry.)  In my first game, I built a string of pop-up colonies as a logistics train to mitigate some inefficiency.

For civilians, since they almost never see combat after early game, all they get are two campaign mods, plus token weapons to auto-resolve fights with.  Usually Efficiency Overhaul (if available, otherwise extra fuel/cargo) and one among Surveying Equipment, Militarized Subsystems, or Augmented Engines.

(Assumes Loadout Design 3.)  For slow battleships, it is possible to have both Efficiency Overhaul and Augmented Engines, and still have something decent (unless player really needs to min-max combat stats for a difficult feat).  Conquest can deal with one mod, maybe two with some sacrifice.  Odyssey is OP starved and has trouble fitting one.

@ Plantissue: I disagree with your point, but I will not argue about it.
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Draba

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2019, 09:41:48 AM »

Exact opposite for me, would never ever consider it on a combat ship.
Flat fuel/supply costs are just not that significant compared to the payouts on missions, and it doesn't help with repair costs.
Throwing in a few tankers and freighters is easy enough.

Even on civilians would prefer a combination of military conversion/augmented drive fields/high resolution sensors most of the time.
Exception is having Odysseys in the fleet, sensors are covered anyway so could go for augmented drive field/efficiency overhaul atlas and prometheus later on.
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CopperCoyote

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2019, 06:51:46 PM »

Despite the savings on the thirsty capitals i typically can't fit it on anything but a prometheus. Most of the time i like to go exploring so smaller faster tender ships are preferred. Especially banged up proteuses with combat upgrade (to be better at sneaking) and survey so i can get the gas giants and not break the bank.

Sometimes i will put it on my flagship too if i've found a nice one thats a size category larger than my ai combat ships (if i also have augmented engines). I play with a lot of mods so there are a lot of really good capitals to find.
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Serenitis

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2019, 06:53:39 AM »

I will almost always use EO on all ships if it is available. Just because it really suits a particular playstyle that I happen to like.

For most of the game I play as a long-distance scavanger/explorer, and EO offers several things which are beneficial to doing that, all of which compound with other skills to make the whole process almost self-sustaining.
  • Crew requirements are lowered
  • Fuel usage is reduced, which combines with navigation skills
  • Supply usage is reduced, which combines with industry and logistics skills
There are also industry skills which boost the amount of post-battle salvage recieved, which also adds to this effect and all combined eventually results in you in having an overall gain of supplies and fuel over time.
This leads to the only real limit of long-range flights being crew and cargo space. EO mitigates the crew limits somewhat, by giving you a larger margin in which your ships still function properly. So you can stay out longer with the same amount of crew.
And the expanded cargo/fuel mods can help with the other limit, and EO offsets the downsides of those mods.
With a setup like this you can stay out on the fringe almost as long as you like.

And to that end, the other ability of EO comes into play. The increased rate of recovery between battles is very valuable if you are leaning into a combat-heavy game, which doing this you definitely are.
Which also combines very well with the industry skill which lets your entire fleet recover a portion of it's readiness after every battle.

This does however mean that you are taking a number of skills which are not nescessarily 'optimal'. And if this bothers you, then there's a good chance that you've either not explored this way of playing or have found it to be unenjoyable. And that's fine.
It's a 1P game, so there is no 'wrong' way to play so long as you're having fun.

Basically, I really like EO. And I don't even care that it's essentially an OP tax because it gives me so much in return.

I don't use EO because 9/10 times I take Navigation 3 and Fleet logistics 2. Half my game I play scavengers (love it!) so got the perk were D-mod reduce supply cost apply all the time, and you get more fuel after battle.
I used that same reasoning to 'double down' on those boosts, which turns out is quite good at giving you huge piles of supplies and fuel. So long as you keep pushing faces in.
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Plantissue

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Re: Is Efficiency Overhaul a no-brainer in the campaign?
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2019, 10:18:57 AM »

I don't see much use out of the increased rate of recovery between battles except to "farm" redacted fleets, by which time you rarely want for anything anyways.
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