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[Igncom1]

The one consensus seems to be that Hardened Shields are required.

If you plan to get close enough to get damaged.

Or if you plan on fighting without an escort. A few eagles and herons in support can easily help cover for the conquest's weaknesses.

[Thaago]

The Conquest has very high sustained damage output: yes it can brawl if outfitted with hardened shields. In my testing I made variants that could, under AI control with no skills (so no loadout boosting OP), take on AI Onslaughts. So while it isn't a battleship, and is weaker than a battleship in a straight fight, you can brawl with it just fine as long as you choose your moment.

In addition to a kiter, the Conquest in player hands excels as a cruiser/destroyer hunter. It is fast enough to flank and collapse a line. This is probably the ideal use of a brawler: to kill enemy cruisers and destroyers before ganging up on a battleship. For AI I'd rather outfit for longer range though, as the AI at present is cowardly and won't attack without numerical superiority (and sometimes not even then).

Now I'm not saying Conquests are as powerful as Onslaughts - they totally aren't! But you can still do a lot of good things with them.

[Euphytose]

The one consensus seems to be that Hardened Shields are required.

If you plan to get close enough to get damaged.

Or if you plan on fighting without an escort. A few eagles and herons in support can easily help cover for the conquest's weaknesses.

Again, if you need to add other ships to the mix, it's a clear sign of inferiority. The debate here is about the ship alone, on its own.

Obviously it won't be the only ship you deploy, but if escorts are mandatory it's a bad thing.

[Megas]

When unskilled AI Conquest can beat SIM Onslaught in a direct shootout about half the time, I think Conquest can brawl.  Conquest straddles the line between battlecruiser and fast battleship.

[Igncom1]

Again, if you need to add other ships to the mix, it's a clear sign of inferiority. The debate here is about the ship alone, on its own.

Obviously it won't be the only ship you deploy, but if escorts are mandatory it's a bad thing.

I'll strongly disagree with that line of thinking. No ship should be it's own fleet, they should all require support on and off the battlefield. Otherwise most of the ships in the game are terrible outside of cost effective frigates, due to being self reliant unlike the larger fuel guzzlers who need flank protection.

A capital ship without escorts, is a dead capital ship. Pure and simple. Just because it can't solo every other ship in the game that doesn't make it bad. The conquest does it's job fantastically, killing cruisers and protecting carriers. It doesn't need to be a fleet killer, leave that to the Paragon.

[Euphytose]

A capital ship without escorts, is a dead capital ship. Pure and simple. Just because it can't solo every other ship in the game that doesn't make it bad. The conquest does it's job fantastically, killing cruisers and protecting carriers. It doesn't need to be a fleet killer, leave that to the Paragon.

The Onslaught and Paragon can kill things before they start becoming a threat, with or without escort. I'll take 1 Paragon over 3 Conquests any day. Think I'm done here and in any future thread discussing the Conquest's balance. You want it to be useful so badly, and it can be, but there's no reason to use it unless it's your only capital available. Until further changes are made to this ship I won't consider it anywhere near as good as any other capital.

And yes I know it's a singleplayer game, it's for fun, blahblah, but to me efficiency is important, even in solo. If there's a clear underdog, I skip.

[Wyvern]

And yes I know it's a singleplayer game, it's for fun, blahblah, but to me efficiency is important, even in solo. If there's a clear underdog, I skip.

There's one additional consideration here, specifically RE: efficiency.  The Conquest and Odyssey have higher burn ratings than other capitals, and use significantly less fuel; this gives them a useful niche of being stronger than cruisers while not requiring quite as much of a logistics train as a Paragon or Onslaught.

[Megas]

I would consider Paragon inefficient if it does not have lances and HVDs because it costs 60 DP and moves too slowly (which means already cowardly enemies avoid it if not tied down by someone else, unless they can swarm and kill Paragon easily).  Even with ATC, Paragon's range with 700 range weapons is inferior to Onslaught or Conquest with ITU and 900 range ballistics.  Paragon with lots of combat skills, a good loadout, and player's willingness to abuse exploits is probably the best at soloing fleets, but it is not good enough to solo the simulator.

Odyssey is a suicidal glass cannon under AI control.  AI thinks it is a tank and plasma burns into a mob like Onslaught (and does not try to outmaneuver enemy capitals), but dies too quickly without adequate defenses.  It is decent under player control and good against the endgame enemies that matter, namely pirates and pathers.

For a simple bruiser, either Onslaught or Conquest is fine, and more efficient than Paragon that lacks proper weapons.  At 40 DP, player can support their non-Paragon capital with a Mora or Heron.  Paragon is not quite 60 DP material without beams and HVDs.  Against the biggest enemies, 200 DP (40% of 500) is not much, let alone 120 DP (40% of 300).

Onslaught's main advantage is it can be equipped with Open Market junk and still wreck fleets.

Conquest needs some of the rarer weapons and hullmods to do well.

@ Wyvern: While efficiency is a consideration, Onslaught and Paragon have enough OP to afford Augmented Engines.  Odyssey does not, and while Conquest might, the sacrifice will hurt.  However, Onslaught is a fuel hog, and Paragon is a DP hog.  Conquest is one of the more campaign efficient capitals.

[Retry]

A capital ship without escorts, is a dead capital ship. Pure and simple. Just because it can't solo every other ship in the game that doesn't make it bad. The conquest does it's job fantastically, killing cruisers and protecting carriers. It doesn't need to be a fleet killer, leave that to the Paragon.

The Onslaught and Paragon can kill things before they start becoming a threat, with or without escort. I'll take 1 Paragon over 3 Conquests any day. Think I'm done here and in any future thread discussing the Conquest's balance. You want it to be useful so badly, and it can be, but there's no reason to use it unless it's your only capital available. Until further changes are made to this ship I won't consider it anywhere near as good as any other capital.

And yes I know it's a singleplayer game, it's for fun, blahblah, but to me efficiency is important, even in solo. If there's a clear underdog, I skip.

Paragon can due to range advantage, Onslaught much less so.  Big 'ol vulnerable spot on the rear arc that frigates and fast Destroyers (Medusa, Shrike) can exploit.  Just one Tempest with Ion Beams that gets to that rear arc can leave its engines virtually permanently disabled and most of the weapon systems too, after which it's pretty straightfoward to flank it and kill it with any decent ship.

This vulnerability can be nullified by not deploying it solo, but then that kind of defeats the "Onslaught doesn't need Escorts" thing.

Paragon fairs a bit better despite its slowness thanks to an effective 360* omni shield, a bit better weapon coverage (IMO), and such.  But it's still vulnerable to fluxing out if it gets surrounded, same as Onslaught or basically any other Cap.

Anywho, what a ship can do solo is not nearly as important as what a ship can do in the context of the entire fleet.  It's a "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" type of ordeal.

[Otharious]

I had a thread about Conquests too awhile ago

food for thought if you want to read through it

Last page is basically my ending choices

http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=14662.0

[Plantissue]

And yes I know it's a singleplayer game, it's for fun, blahblah, but to me efficiency is important, even in solo. If there's a clear underdog, I skip.

There's one additional consideration here, specifically RE: efficiency.  The Conquest and Odyssey have higher burn ratings than other capitals, and use significantly less fuel; this gives them a useful niche of being stronger than cruisers while not requiring quite as much of a logistics train as a Paragon or Onslaught.

What do you mean? Don't the Paragon and Conquest have the same fuel per LY? In any case, fuel is not much of a concern by the time you can are happily deploying capital ships. As a side note, the fact that the Conquest and Odyssey both have the burn speed as cruisers kind of render most cruisers pointless.

[TaLaR]

What do you mean? Don't the Paragon and Conquest have the same fuel per LY? In any case, fuel is not much of a concern by the time you can are happily deploying capital ships. As a side note, the fact that the Conquest and Odyssey both have the burn speed as cruisers kind of render most cruisers pointless.

To travel at the same speed Paragon needs an extra Tug.

As for cruisers being obsolete - Odyssey is a horrible ship for AI, Conquest is only somewhat ok. On the other hand Eagle is probably the single easiest ship for AI to pilot.
Plus, unless you increase battle-size far above default max of 500, you'll never be able to deploy your fleet of 11 capitals anyway. Finding worthy opponents would also be real problem (and otherwise you waste tons of supplies/fuel for maintenance of overkill fleet).

[Megas]

Plus, unless you increase battle-size far above default max of 500, you'll never be able to deploy your fleet of 11 capitals anyway. Finding worthy opponents would also be real problem (and otherwise you waste tons of supplies/fuel for maintenance of overkill fleet).

In my last game, I brought four or five capital warships, two Prometheus, and four tugs, and - without Navigation - the fleet was a gigantic fuel hog.  My colonies made so much money that I could easily afford it (despite costs taking a big bite out of income), but the bigger problem was range, even with Efficiency Overhaul on all ships.  I used one or two pop-up colonies as refuel stops, and I have been tempted to abandon them if they were attacked at an inconvenient time.

At 500 size, I could deploy about nine ships.  It gets worse if I use smaller map size.

As for worthy opponents, if fleet is too big to withdraw, might was well be prepared in case something overwhelming is encountered unexpectedly.  I do not want to get jumped by a 300+ ship pileup again without a big fleet that can obliterate it, not barely win.

To travel at the same speed Paragon needs an extra Tug.

Or Augmented Engines.  But that is sort of a moot point because player will need tugs if he wants burn 20 with battleships.  Without Navigation, I need Augmented Engines on Onslaught or Paragon just to break 8 burn.  (9 is irrelevant if the bulk of my fleet is at 8 )  Fortunately, at least with Loadout Design 3, proper battleships have spare OP to throw into some luxuries (like Augmented Engines and Efficiency Overhaul).  Navigation means I only need two tugs instead of four for a burn 20 fleet with big ships.  And if I bring several capitals, how fast the warships are is irrelevant because I will need Prometheus to haul all of the fuel I need (if I want to explore or reach the Red Planet at the other side of the sector), and that is the slowest ship in the game.

[Lucky33]

All the proud "Single Capital to Rule them All" users usually unaware of the ECM existance. Against large Remnant fleet this single ship will get full -25% range reduction. Not the best thing against several flickering five TacLance toting drones...