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Author Topic: A couple of Skill Suggestions  (Read 1562 times)

Wyvern

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A couple of Skill Suggestions
« on: January 31, 2019, 03:13:10 PM »

  • Helmsmanship 3:
    Keeping the zero flux bonus at up to 1% flux capacity is... not really valuable, anymore.  This perk has gone from game-changingly-useful to one that I just don't bother getting and wish I could effectively skip on AI officers.

    So I'd like to suggest an alternative: replace it with a +25 bonus to the zero flux speed boost.  This old helmsmanship perk was overpowered when it was originally in the game... but if it's replacing the current level three bonus, then the things that made it overpowered (an ability to keep the zero flux speed boost when over zero flux) won't be around.
  • Defensive Systems 3:
    The increased time multiplier for phase ships is not a bad perk for the player, but is a strong net penalty for the AI - it means that, when they're flitting around in phase space trying to find a good time/place to drop back out of phase, they're using up more of their CR timer and flux bar to no real advantage.  There are a couple of options I can see for addressing this:
    • Reduce the CR-timer decay rate & flux maintenance cost while phasing, proportionately to the increase in time rate provided by the skill.
    • Replace the bonus time multiplier with a boost to ship speed and maneuverability - there are several mods that do this for their phase ships and it's a very nice effect.
    • Replace the skill perk with something completely different - for example, if we wanted something as potentially game-changing as the hard flux dissipation, how about making it so that the hard flux cost to activate the phasing cloak is paid over a short duration instead of all at once - this would allow a phase ship that's capped on soft flux to still phase out, while one that's capped on hard flux and tries to phase out would get a fraction of a second of phasing and then overload.
  • Officer Management:
    I'd greatly appreciate an extra perk somewhere in this skill that increases the skill choices at each level from two to three.
  • Planetary Operations 3:
    A +2 stability bonus doesn't really fit with the rest of the skill.  I'd suggest, instead, putting in something that makes allied stations more effective & enemy stations less effective.  Perhaps a large ECM bonus in battles that include a station?  Perhaps bonus ordnance points for allied stations, or even the ability to manually configure your star base's variant?  Perhaps a simple damage bonus for attacks against enemy stations?  Plenty of options, here.
  • Sensors 1:
    Neutrino Detector, as currently implemented, is simply not worth a skill point; even when I have it, I don't end up using it.  Suggested improvement: When activating neutrino detector, you get a scrolling status message telling you how many things there are in-system that you haven't found.  I.E., you can use it to quickly and easily answer the question "Am I done exploring in this system or not?"  (This would probably need to be paired with a change to the cost - something like five volatiles up front, but then little to no ongoing cost.)
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xor0

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 03:53:27 PM »

Quote from: Wyvern
  • Officer Management:
    I'd greatly appreciate an extra perk somewhere in this skill that increases the skill choices at each level from two to three.

Yes please.
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Megas

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 04:02:29 PM »

As Wyvern says, I would like to see the original Helmsmanship 5 perk (+75 zero-flux bonus) replace the current level 3 perk.

I do not take Defensive Systems 3 because it harms phase ships.

Increase two to three skill picks should be done regardless of skill; it is a UI issue.  It will at least reduce the save-scumming.  Better yet, let players pick officers' skills like the player's skills so that player does not need to save-scum officer skills.

+2 stability on Planetary Operations seems weird, but I like it.  If there needs to be a different bonus, then how about more loot after a raid.  I probably would like to remove the stability penalty so that player can raid more, but that would be counterproductive for those times when player wants to raid a planet to decivilize it.  Maybe another bonus is to reduce the penalties inflicted by events (like Pirate Activity or Active Pather Cells).  I would like to see Pather Cells caught, rounded up, and executed, immunizing the colony from pathers.  Or maybe halve the penalties from acquired planet conditions like decivilized or pollution.

Neutrino Detector needs to get rid of the fake results.  It is not always easy for me to tell the difference.  Sometimes I need to move a significant distance to make sure the fake is not moving.  As is, Neutrino Detector is so annoying to use that I do not think of wasting a point when I can just Sensor Burst.

Another skill that needs help:  Combat Endurance, namely 2.

Also, Fleet Logistics does too much, practically two skills in one.  Three great perks without the colony bonuses, and it has very useful colony bonuses along with it.

Merge Missile Specialization and Strike Command.

Merge Fighter Doctrine and Carrier Command.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 04:06:12 PM by Megas »
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Wyvern

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 04:41:15 PM »

Yeah, Fleet Logistics isn't in a good place right now; I didn't post anything about it in the original post, because I don't have any really good ideas for how to fix it.  I mean, the -best- idea I've got is to just say "This is mandatory, move it over to the aptitude."  But there aren't any good candidates for 'mandatory' skills in either combat or industry, and if you're going to go back to the (imo superior) setup of having it not be a dead level (i.e. a level where you gain nothing) when you need to boost an aptitude, they'd need something too.  Plus, that would devalue administrators some... not that they're very valuable right now... and, arg.  No quick-and-easy obvious-right-fix solutions, here.

Combat Endurance, by contrast... well.  It's... kindof in a good place?  Sure, the level two perk is junk, but the level one and three perks are both quite good.  The skill's worth having, and is one of my priority picks for officers.  The only reason I say it's only 'kindof' in a good place is that using it results in an annoying game of match-the-skills-to-the-ship where you can't freely swap officers around because you're burning supplies every time you assign an officer without the skill to a ship that previously had an officer with the skill.  Which is annoying!  But the actual effectiveness of the skill as a whole is still worth it.

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Megas

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 04:45:14 PM »

Combat Endurance 1 and 3 seem okay.  1 is great.  3 is okay (but not great), but the stinky 2 prerequisite drags 3 down.  If 2 was good, I would consider 3.  With bad 2, I do not think about getting 3.
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Wyvern

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 04:49:51 PM »

Huh.  I'd actually order that the other way around - Combat Endurance 3 is great; it's an extra 5% to almost everything (damage, speed, tankiness...).  I'm guessing that you don't see it that way because you do a lot more chain-battling, while I almost always have ships back at max CR before the next fight starts?

Combat Endurance 1, by contrast... well, there are times where it great!  Like, on any ship with SO.  Or on frigates (and, late-game, destroyers) that you want to not fall apart before the battle's over.  And there are times where it's just completely irrelevant because you had enough CR-time without it.  Still a good perk overall, but definitely situational.
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Megas

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 05:02:07 PM »

Huh.  I'd actually order that the other way around - Combat Endurance 3 is great; it's an extra 5% to almost everything (damage, speed, tankiness...).  I'm guessing that you don't see it that way because you do a lot more chain-battling, while I almost always have ships back at max CR before the next fight starts?

Combat Endurance 1, by contrast... well, there are times where it great!  Like, on any ship with SO.  Or on frigates (and, late-game, destroyers) that you want to not fall apart before the battle's over.  And there are times where it's just completely irrelevant because you had enough CR-time without it.  Still a good perk overall, but definitely situational.
I see 1 as great because of cowardly AI, and AI in 0.9 is almost as cowardly as in 0.8.  Also, battles are longer due to bigger enemy fleets and battlestation.  Also, the occasional station fight near star or black hole.  It is also great for phase ships, namely Harbinger.

I generally see more CR as either as more time to fight past peak performance (when I cannot retreat the ship) or one more fight.  In case of 3, if I cannot afford it and Fleet Logistics, better to get Fleet Logistics.  Minor bonus to everything is nice (when I can get it), but... I probably am better off getting more Officer Management and swap to that officer's ship before fighting (another doing that in every battle would be annoying).
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TaLaR

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 12:51:16 AM »

Helmsmanship 3:
+1 to change it. As it exists now, it's only useful as AI crutch (since AI is bad at judging when it's safe to drop shield).

Defensive Systems 3:
It makes you stronger vs normal ships (easier to outmaneuver shields, faster AM blaster and system recharge), weaker vs phase ships (since you can't out-phase them as easily anymore). Since AI phase ships are generally not much of threat (except Doom), it's mostly acceptable.

Still, I totally agree that something needs to change about. There is no single other double-edged sword skill like that. It needs to tick CR at 3x rate despite 4x time passage/be toggle-able/changed into something else.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 01:01:50 AM by TaLaR »
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Serenitis

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 05:25:56 AM »

Combat Endurance
Level 1 is great. More peak time is p. much mandatory for my player, and very beneficial to my officers.
Level 2 is not really all that attractive, but I might pick it up eventually even though lowering CR related failure rates is meh.
Level 3 is nice to have just to have that extra bank of CR for long (or multiple) fights. It's not a priority though and is usually a late game thing.

CE2 is just such a non-entity, that it can sometimes effectively block getting CE3 just because you need to do something else due to circumstance and this gives you effectively nothing.
And I'm saying this as a mostly SO player who isn't afraid to run down the CR clock.

Suggestions to consider for CE2:
  • Reduces the rate of CR degredation when out of peak time - like a 'lite' version of the Hardened Subsystems mod
  • Increases the tolerance for enemy presence for the purposes of triggering peak time reduction
  • Eliminates system failures to to low CR - not sure even this would be worth it tbh
  • Increases some aspect of ship performance when peak time expires
  • Disabling enemy ships gives a small amount of CR depending on size of target, if below the maximum - VICTORY IS LIFE!
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Mr. Nobody

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 07:43:50 AM »

Possible idea: make so that most skills (especially those related to single-ship buffs) have mutually exclusive "personal" and "fleet" versions.
Ie: the "tree" for a single skill could be, as a simple example

              Lv1
             /    \
          Lv2    Lv2
   (personal)  (fleetwide)
             \    /
              Lv3


The "personal" skill is of course, much more powerful than the fleetwide one, but is only applied to the ship you're piloting.
Officers can, of course, only get personal skills.

Here's the kicker, only the bigger bonus applies meaning that the fleetwide stuff is great if you want to command a big horde of scrap and run somewhat lean since you don't have to deal with officer salaries (quantity over quality approach) while it becomes nearly useless if most of your fleet has officers (since only the bigger bonus applies).
Or you could pick more personal skills and get your other ships officers (quality over quantity approach).

This is to be combined with a removal of the fleet cap and likely with an increase in officer costs, you can have a whole lot of slightly buffed ships or be a small-ish elite team where every ship (including yours) is as buffed as it can be without forcing the player to be just a buff machine while the officers get all the fun because otherwise your fleet can't survive the triple stacked deathball the AI is allowed to run at zero cost

As for the trees:
Combat: kill stuff better and be more resistant to being killed, magazines, armor, shields, missiles, you name it, we got it (offensive and defensive buffs)
Leadership: get stuff where it needs to go fast, whether that be ships, fighters or ammunition, also command points for days (the "speed" tree)
Science: nasty ewar stuff and toys to troll your enemies with, debuffs go here but there's also other stuff (battlefield control & co.)
Industry: the ability of having stuff working smoother than before, what are these "critical malfunctions" you speak of? (endurance tree)
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Megas

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2019, 10:14:17 AM »

The biggest complaint I have about skills is player grabbing personal carrier skills locks the player into Astral or other carrier, because if he does not use a carrier, his carrier skills are wasted.  Other personal skills (except possibly Missile Specialization) are widely applicable, but the carrier skills apply only to a small subset of ships.

Missile Specialization is already a niche skill, and since Strike Command does practically the same thing, except for fighters, those two skills look like prime candidates to be merged together.

Similar problem with Carrier Command.  Opportunity cost to get that is too high when player can delegate that to an officer.  Fighter Doctrine does not give much, but only the player can take that and it works on the whole fleet (which may not be much if player uses big ships and small battle map size).

I do not know what combat skill would make a good pair with Wing Command.  Maybe Advanced Countermeasures?

Quote
Possible idea: make so that most skills (especially those related to single-ship buffs) have mutually exclusive "personal" and "fleet" versions.
Ie: the "tree" for a single skill could be, as a simple example
Another idea is to make level 3 fleetwide and levels 1 and 2 personal.  Either player can branch out and become super pilot, or specialize and make his fleet great.
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Megas

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2019, 11:28:12 AM »

Another skill that annoys me:  Loadout Design.  Ships are sufficiently OP starved that ships do not have the OP to afford super-capacitors or super-vents unlocked by 1 and 2.  Plus, max capacitors is usually more than what ships need, which makes 1 almost useless.  3 is so good that it outshines every other perk, except maybe Electronic Warfare 1.  Even with extra OP from 3, many ships are still OP starved if they use campaign or Reinforced Bulkheads hullmods.
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Wyvern

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 11:39:25 AM »

The level one perk from loadout design is mostly useless, yes... but only mostly.  Frigates in particular tend to need capacitors just as a basic survivability boost, and while I usually don't push for absolutely maxing out capacitors, most of my frigate variants tend to end up with around 7-12.  That tends to fall off with larger ship sizes, though; many destroyers still need some capacitors, but few of them will ever hit max (I really only see that on very-early-game hammerhead variants when I just don't have the premium weapons or hull mods that would normally occupy the space), and generally cruisers and capital ships work best with capacitors only used to fill in extra OP that can't be spent elsewhere.
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Megas

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2019, 11:53:28 AM »

@ Wyvern:  That is why I said almost.  I think the one time I might go super max is Hyperion, and only if I can afford it.  Everything else that needs or benefit from max capacitors can do fine with merely max.  Aside from phase ships and Hyperion, my frigates have max capacitors at best, but it is usually from 4 to 9.  I agree that most ships need some capacitors to work well, but I find max overkill on most, let alone supermax.

Conquest without Hardened Shields will need high capacitors to avoid overloading too quickly, due to shields blocking enemy fire.  That said, Hardened Shields, well... all of the hullmods, are much easier to come by in 0.9.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 11:55:56 AM by Megas »
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Blothorn

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Re: A couple of Skill Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2019, 12:52:23 PM »

The biggest complaint I have about skills is player grabbing personal carrier skills locks the player into Astral or other carrier, because if he does not use a carrier, his carrier skills are wasted.  Other personal skills (except possibly Missile Specialization) are widely applicable, but the carrier skills apply only to a small subset of ships.

I would repeat my interest in a "flag captain"--allow assigning an AI officer to your flagship and use their skill bonuses, not yours (even if some of yours are better). There are still tradeoffs--AI officers do not have enough SP for all useful skills, so a fully-combat-specced character would still beat a max-level officer, and if (as is usual) you have more ships than officers it means one of your other ships has no officer at all. It would ensure that the player can switch between ships benefiting from different specialized skillsets--the converse to taking carrier skills locking you into carriers is that *not* taking carriers skills locks you out of them.
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