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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 351462 times)

Grievous69

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #735 on: June 03, 2019, 01:30:44 PM »

I was in a Paragon

Well you should've started with that. No wonder the Dooms succeeded when you had the tankiest ship in the game. With a Paragon you can just bring carriers with bombers and achieve the same thing (not sure about the cost differences). Doom itself isn't crazy strong, even with the Mine strike, he just needs distraction who soak shots to shine.
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Troll

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #736 on: June 03, 2019, 01:37:40 PM »

Except they can Mine Strike from phase, and on another station (albeit a little weaker) I didn't even tank, the station kept alternating between the two.

I'll try the same but with a Monitor instead of a Paragon, if I can find one, or more.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #737 on: June 03, 2019, 02:33:50 PM »

A single Afflictor can single-handedly take out a full tier 1 orbital station (that pirates use) with Reaper spam if the player aims well.  If not, two or three should do the trick for less cost than a single Doom.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #738 on: June 03, 2019, 07:53:05 PM »

Thats all true, but a single Hammerhead can also take out an intro pirate station just with its guns. Its a bit harder with a 3 module station just because the ship has a hard time tanking enough fire on the way in (no 'dead region' to pilot through), but they are still threats that destroyer fleets can deal with handily. I think phase ships are in a pretty good place balance wise, accepting that they are supposed to have the impact of a ship 1 tier up.
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Legion0047

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #739 on: June 04, 2019, 05:48:58 AM »

To the point of easy loot i just got three corrupted forges out of a single station and will often get 3-5 blueprints at once if i get any at all.
Just saying.
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XazoTak

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #740 on: June 07, 2019, 02:45:07 AM »

I can't help but notice that every change made to mines is a boost to their effectiveness:
* The Doom will now avoid its own mines if they are a danger
* Improved placement of mines by the Mine Strike ship system, especially against ships whose center-of-rotation doesn't match the center of the ship sprite
* [ship AI] Reacts more quickly to "primed" friendly mines

I've always hated mine strikes and thought they should be removed from the game, because they're ridiculously overpowered against frigates (and have infinite ammo unlike all other powerful explosives, how is that balanced?); and they're getting a buff?
I'm aware that these aren't buffs of the conventional sort, but a bugfix that favours the user is a buff.

Seriously though, mine strikes feel very out of place in this game, and completely ruin the combat dynamics.
It's super weird and overpowered because:
* It's as powerful as a torpedo, and yet rapidly replenishes ammo and has an unlimited fire rate, making it far far better than torpedoes against anything which can't avoid the mines (is moving too fast, or isn't in control of its movement)
* It's easier to hit targets the faster they're moving, the opposite to every other weapon (making it super powerful against fighters and frigates)
* It's the only weapon that can hit with almost instantly from any direction other than from the firing ship, which is a big deal given that knowing what angle you're about to be hit from is massively important in this game and AI ships are just as dependent on knowing this


On a different note, I see that the reputation penalties for dealing with punitive expeditions have drastically reduced and the frequency is still low, but still it should be remembered that getting reputation is painfully slow and grindy in this game. Basically everything costs reputation, and the only way to get it back is to take on easy-peasy missions that take so long that it only feels worthwhile if you can get at least three going to the same place. I don't have an objection to how reputation loss works currently (except that perfect stealth takedowns are impossible), but reputation gain is a total pain.
I really want to play as Space Mafia, but dull missions are the only option for gaining a lot of reputation to keep up with various losses. Can't I use my drug money to fund some government programme, or make some corrupt authorities not investigate too deep into a few unimportant fleets going missing?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 03:08:24 AM by XazoTak »
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TaLaR

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #741 on: June 07, 2019, 03:01:40 AM »

Mines just need initial priming time, like Reapers, to prevent insta-killing fast frigates.
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XazoTak

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #742 on: June 07, 2019, 03:21:59 AM »

Mines just need initial priming time, like Reapers, to prevent insta-killing fast frigates.
If it was a pretty long time (3 seconds perhaps), and they were collidable objects for the arming duration (so, pushed around by ships) then it'd work well.
No need to make changes to the AI, unlike if they were destroyed by contact if unarmed. Placing mines in the path of a target still works since they push the mine along with them.
The mines would be strictly only usable as mines with this kind of arming time, instead of like an extremely overpowered torpedo reliant on target velocity.
It'd certainly give mines more of a place in the game: Instead of being used offensively with intent of immediate detonation, as if they were torpedoes, you just use them to limit the movement of a ship.
Instead of being a really overpowered offensive ship, Doom would be more of a utility ship, able to quickly put enemy ships in sticky situations and also make an area much more dangerous for fighters. Also, bases still wouldn't be able to avoid the mines.
Doom would still be extremely useful, it'd just stop being a solo slaughtermachine.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #743 on: June 07, 2019, 05:21:17 AM »

At Doom's speed and cost, I want it to be a murder machine.  Support ships are lame unless they are cheap, and Doom is not.  Doom is almost as expensive as a capital, at least DP cost wise.  (Phase ships are intended to act as one weight class higher.)  It should hit like one.

A capital like Onslaught murders frigates fast.  It is okay for Doom, as a pseudo-capital, to snuff frigates almost immediately.

Bottom line, Mine Strike is (mostly) fine, especially for a ship that is too slow to flank by itself.  Ditto for Star Fortresses.  Slight arming delay may be okay.

Quote
On a different note, I see that the reputation penalties for dealing with punitive expeditions have drastically reduced and the frequency is still low, but still it should be remembered that getting reputation is painfully slow and grindy in this game. Basically everything costs reputation, and the only way to get it back is to take on easy-peasy missions that take so long that it only feels worthwhile if you can get at least three going to the same place. I don't have an objection to how reputation loss works currently (except that perfect stealth takedowns are impossible), but reputation gain is a total pain.
Expeditions are slow until you turn on Free Port, then they are frequently.  You will need Free Port to accelerate colony growth a bit once it reaches size 6+, since Growth Incentives no longer give crazy bonuses like last release.

The fastest way to get reputation is let pirates raid a system and wait until the system posts a bounty.  Clean up the pirate mess there and rake in the money and reputation.  Take advantage of system bounties for reputation gain.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #744 on: June 07, 2019, 10:25:04 AM »

Mines just need initial priming time, like Reapers, to prevent insta-killing fast frigates.

Ah, I think I remember you mentioning this a while back! It's a good idea vs frigates, but it also makes the mines way less effective vs fighters (which they're meant to be), so it doesn't quite work out. I have a todo item to look at increasing the spawn radius vs frigates, though; I do agree that insta-gibbing frigates is a bit much.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #745 on: June 07, 2019, 02:44:17 PM »

I've noticed an odd thing: against stations, the AI seems to prioritize structural spars and other elements as their targets. This includes bombers and ships. Has anyone else noticed this?
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #746 on: June 07, 2019, 03:01:29 PM »

Hmm - it's probably not that but rather targeting stuff behind those; it's of course possible there are bugs, but it should be impossible for the AI to target non-damageable modules of that kind.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #747 on: June 07, 2019, 03:26:25 PM »

The ones I'm seeing in particular are damageable - the structural spars on a midline tier 1 station (pirate). Its not the end of the world that they are being targeted because once they go down they allow for side access, but the AI seems to be targeting them in preference to targeting the parts with guns.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #748 on: June 07, 2019, 03:30:49 PM »

Ah, got it. That sort of makes sense - it may not be ideal in that specific case, but the targeting logic is the same as when picking what ships to attack, so it's more likely to try to pick off flanks and roll them up, if that makes sense.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #749 on: June 07, 2019, 03:41:26 PM »

It makes sense, and is not such a bad choice in retrospect. For bombers however its a bit of a waste, as they are sometimes giving up good opportunities to strike the main parts.
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