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Author Topic: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 351668 times)

Awe

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #645 on: May 24, 2019, 09:23:18 AM »

Also, about exploration. Game lack of capital sized exploration vessel(or at least non civilian capital cargo ship). Atlas/prometheus cant support 250 scanner strenght while keeping 9 speed, because you must choose between militarised systems+drive field for speed, or militarised systems+high resolution scanners for maximum possible scanning range. 5 proper capitals is just too expensive for this role.
This is when Navigation 3 and/or tugs becomes useful.  No navigation and four tugs for 20 speed is a big drain on fuel, even during 0.9a.  I am seriously considering Navigation for my character, but that means I am one or two skill points shy of grabbing another skill I equally covet, like Planetary Operations to raise defenses enough to eliminate some babysitting, or more combat perks.  (Of course, if fleets will tac bomb defenses in a later version, that means I would need to babysit anyway to prevent them from inflicting "Pollution" on some of my colonies.)

Navigation 3 is obvious pick(no-brainer for me). 9 base speed + Nav3 mean 20 sustain burn(at least in clear space). I wish more base speed for exploration, but then you need to sacrifice other fleet aspects. Tugs definitely not for exploration.
Imho, exploration fleet must be:
1. Cheap in maintenance and fuel cosumption so you can just cover all fleet needs by loot from exploration sites and don't return to core worlds for resupply at all.
2. As fast as possible. Preferable at least 9 base speed.
3. With maximum possible scanning range.
And of course must bring enough surveying equipment to keep planet scanning at 5 supply cost.
So currently you can do 1 and 2, but cant do 3. Must trade for additional 500(625) scanning range either speed 7(16) vs 9(20), while keeping useful for exploration ships, or big fleet maintenance - even 5 cheapest capitals(Odysseys) is too costly and kinda useless for exploring just because you dont need so much firepower for this.
Having something like capital sized Mule in game would be nice. :)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 09:25:57 AM by Awe »
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #646 on: May 24, 2019, 09:59:03 AM »

Character build depends a lot on play style.  I'm personally willing to use alpha cores, and generally don't run d-mod ships mid to late game, so I've got a fairly different skill distribution.  I admit the alpha cores induce AI inspection fleets (but those can bribed) and Pather interest, but I consider both of those manageable and I figure I'm going to run into Pather interest with heavy industry + other stuff anyways.

Currently my level 50 character in a Nexerelin modded run has the following personal skills:
Combat Endurance 3, Ordnance Expertise 3, Target Analysis 3, Defense Systems 3, Advanced Countermeasures 3, Evasive Action 1, Helmsmanship 2, Gunnery Implants 3, Power Grid Modulation 3.

That still leaves enough for fleet skills of Officer Management 3, Fleet Logistics 3, Coordinated Maneuvers 3, Fighter Doctrine 3, Electronic Warfare 1, Loadout Design 3, and Navigation 3.

That makes my personal character better than an level 20 officer (equivalent to 8 skills at 3 instead of 7).  I don't run d-mods in my endgame fleet, so the Industry fleet skills aren't useful to me.  As far as I can tell, I'm really just missing EW 3 and Command and Control 3 as things which could boost my fleet as a whole.  50% more effective ground combat just means more credits spent on marines when I get around to that, so I skip planetary operations.  Mid-late thats not a problem I find.  I suppose if I were raiding early game planetary operations might make sense, but I tend to play nice early game.

My combat fleet is currently fast battlecruisers (Odysseys, Conquests) and cruisers (Herons, Apogees, Eagles), so between navigation and base speed I'm running at burn 9 (18 sustained) which feels fast enough for my purposes.  If I do exploring, I just run a few Apogees (say 3), maybe some Shepherds, and a Dram or two.  If I'm just looking for rare salvage (Nanoforges/Syncrotrons, blueprints), you don't need capital class cargo capacity.

If you're doing exploration for bulk goods to sell for credits, I guess I don't see that as particularly efficient?  I've generally made more profit by popping in and of the core worlds to get exploration missions for credits (or even bring along some transplutonics to build makeshift comm relays to pick up more missions while out in the black - gives me something to do with all the excess metal and machinery I pick up).

On my spacer iron man run that worked, I just did pure exploring early on, but was just running scans for the credits and opening up only the good stuff (Research stations, mining stations, caches, Survey ships, and looking for ruins on planets) when I saw them.  I basically did that with like a single combat fit Apogee, maybe 4 or 5 shepherds, and a dram.  I did take the sensors skill in that game.  +25% sensor range is good for searching, and neutrino detector is handy for the stuff out near the edges of the system, especially on Iron man when you're taking every explore mission.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #647 on: May 24, 2019, 10:59:59 AM »

Raiding is good for extra credits and blueprints.

The main benefits of Planetary Operations is +50% ground defense (push it into absurd with other boosts) and +2 stability (one more colony).  The extra attack is convenient, but negligible.

As for Pathers and Heavy Industry.  Heavy Industry with nanoforge will not attact Pathers if there are no other Pather aggro Industries.  For secondary Heavy Industries (to boost production amount), those can have no nanoforge for only +2 interest instead of +6 with nanoforge.

I really dislike Pathers enough that I prefer to avoid them at all costs.  However, it seems worlds with 10 stability are immune to sabotage.
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The2nd

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #648 on: May 24, 2019, 02:25:55 PM »

Am I just extremely unlucky or has the Odyssey become extremely rare? I am approaching the end of my vanilla run and I have never even seen one. No blueprint either. I have a collection of all other capitals by now including several Paragons. And yet I dearly miss that ship.  :'(
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Gotcha!

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #649 on: May 24, 2019, 02:43:00 PM »

Am I just extremely unlucky or has the Odyssey become extremely rare?
Probably a bit of both. ;)
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Schwartz

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #650 on: May 24, 2019, 03:11:49 PM »

You're right, Odyssey is very rare in NPC fleets and as a blueprint. Aurora too, for me. I got lucky raiding Hybrasil for blueprints of each.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #651 on: May 24, 2019, 03:21:52 PM »

I think I have gone 3 campaigns so far without seeing an odyssey or maybe one locked behind commission once. They are very rare because TT is carrier focused so they rarely use warships. I wish there was another high tech faction who used warships so I could see that content once in a while.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #652 on: May 24, 2019, 03:25:42 PM »

I think I have gone 3 campaigns so far without seeing an odyssey or maybe one locked behind commission once. They are very rare because TT is carrier focused so they rarely use warships. I wish there was another high tech faction who used warships so I could see that content once in a while.
Independents have some high-tech, and New Maxios is easy to raid.  Swiped Doom and Harbinger blueprints from them.
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SapphireSage

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #653 on: May 24, 2019, 04:40:34 PM »

@Megas Colonies with 10 stability are not immune to sabotage. Earlier in this topic Alex confirmed that the chance of countering sabotage was 10% for every stability point above 5, so at 10 stability its a 50% chance.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #654 on: May 24, 2019, 04:47:27 PM »

@Megas Colonies with 10 stability are not immune to sabotage. Earlier in this topic Alex confirmed that the chance of countering sabotage was 10% for every stability point above 5, so at 10 stability its a 50% chance.
I thought I read that somewhere.  In practice, every time I see the Pathers try something (and I have seen at least a dozen tries over two games), they are foiled every time.  Maybe there is a bug somewhere that doubles the chances of (or sets it to 100%) failed sabotage?
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Cosmitz

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #655 on: May 24, 2019, 05:18:06 PM »

I'm sorry, don't have much indepth to contribute, but i do have a thing to say about Pather/Pirate bases in fringe systems. They're more useful alive than dead most times as they're a constant source of food/fuel and work as a forward operating base, even if they hate your guts. All the benefits of a why you'd want a colony without any of the hassle.

Any chance that maybe i could meet a stray or two independent rimworlds, or some Sindrian expedition that got a bit too populous and popular and is now acting as a waypoint for scavengers and explorers? They don't have to show up on the planet list for the factions, but they'd be cool finds for people that know where they are.

It'd help with a bit of variety from trekking always from the coreworlds or your own colony stations, and maybe lead to more active exploitation of deep space past just 'running through them once to get the stuff'. I had a Pirate base nearby a cluster that always got a lot of bounties and it was cool not having to 'return to base' after each one or two bounties.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 05:30:58 PM by Cosmitz »
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Baqar79

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #656 on: May 24, 2019, 06:08:57 PM »

I'm sorry, don't have much indepth to contribute, but i do have a thing to say about Pather/Pirate bases in fringe systems. They're more useful alive than dead most times as they're a constant source of food/fuel and work as a forward operating base, even if they hate your guts. All the benefits of a why you'd want a colony without any of the hassle.

Any chance that maybe i could meet a stray or two independent rimworlds, or some Sindrian expedition that got a bit too populous and popular and is now acting as a waypoint for scavengers and explorers? They don't have to show up on the planet list for the factions, but they'd be cool finds for people that know where they are.

It'd help with a bit of variety from trekking always from the coreworlds or your own colony stations, and maybe lead to more active exploitation of deep space past just 'running through them once to get the stuff'. I had a Pirate base nearby a cluster that always got a lot of bounties and it was cool not having to 'return to base' after each one or two bounties.

This sounds neat, kind of reminds me of the distant way stations in Elite Dangerous on route to Colonia or the Core.

On a related note, any possibility that there might be some larger sector options?

Would also be interesting to come across more scripted exploration moments, I think Stellaris did a pretty good job there with the initial exploration phase of the game and all those anomaly scans.  No fancy graphics (well occasionally you got a unique picture), all text with the occasional decision to be made.
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Awe

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #657 on: May 24, 2019, 06:21:48 PM »

If I'm just looking for rare salvage (Nanoforges/Syncrotrons, blueprints), you don't need capital class cargo capacity.

+25% sensor range is good for searching

I dont complain about cargo capacity - need more cargo space? just take more cargo ships and its ok. But sensors is based on hull size. So if i want(and i want) to have (250x5+300)x1.25=1937 scanners range i need to take 5 capitals with high resolution sensors mod into fleet. Just 1 apogee and a few smaller ships is usually have much smaller sensor strenght. Like 300+150+60+60+60+60=690 without 25% from skill, or close to 1k with. Pretty big and noticeable difference.
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Baqar79

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #658 on: May 24, 2019, 06:53:32 PM »

If I'm just looking for rare salvage (Nanoforges/Syncrotrons, blueprints), you don't need capital class cargo capacity.

+25% sensor range is good for searching

I dont complain about cargo capacity - need more cargo space? just take more cargo ships and its ok. But sensors is based on hull size. So if i want(and i want) to have (250x5+300)x1.25=1937 scanners range i need to take 5 capitals with high resolution sensors mod into fleet. Just 1 apogee and a few smaller ships is usually have much smaller sensor strenght. Like 300+150+60+60+60+60=690 without 25% from skill, or close to 1k with. Pretty big and noticeable difference.
Yeah I wouldn't mind something like this, but the Odyssey-class does have the cheapest fuel usage of the capital ships (even if it is still 8 fuel/ly), and does come with High Resolution sensors built-in (So 250 sensor strength from the get-go).  It can do 8 burn (which is pretty good for capitals), but personally it just isn't economical enough after flying around the Apogee. 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 06:55:07 PM by Baqar79 »
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.9.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #659 on: May 25, 2019, 06:02:24 AM »

I originally posted a long post about cheesing the enemy with my whole fleet hugging the wall here, but decided to remove it and re-post it separately in its own topic in General Discussions.
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