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Author Topic: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges  (Read 2625 times)

j01

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0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« on: March 08, 2012, 06:21:34 PM »

I've had a large number of small scale battles now where the AI ships just circle around each other and never get close enough to actually fight.

This is disconcerting enough, but it became a real problem when I engaged a single enemy Paragon while piloting a hyperion frigate, accompanied by my AI friend in a Venture.

I tried every combination of orders, from setting the Paragon to an all-out attack target, setting AI to search and destroy, placing a defend point or rally carrier point directly behind the Paragon, and my Venture friend will not come close enough to fight at all 9 battles out of 10. It just flies forward, then backs away indefinitely just before entering fire range, even if I'm already fighting the Paragon, and even when the Paragon is turned completely around.

The one time I did manage to nudge the Venture within fighting distance of the Paragon, it fired its light needlers from too far away, about twice the needlers' weapon range. The ship slowly lurched back and forth, still way out of range, wasting its needler ammo and missiles.

I don't know if it's a problem with the needlers, or if the cowardly AI behavior made it waste its ammo, because the Paragon would often blast its heavy needlers way out of range too, as the Venture bobbed uncertainly just short of closing.

The latter example was done with higher level crew in all ships, if it matters.
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Cryten

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2012, 05:43:32 AM »

This sounds like you forgot to assign your escort vessel weapon groups for it to yuse the weapons you installed on it. Since bought ships start with no weapons in thier slots they dosnt have assigned groups for the AI to use untill you set them yourself in the refit screen. Either that or you forgot to put weapons on a store bought ship entirely.

Im not entirely sure the AI wont use weapons even without assigned weapons groups tbh, Im just thoerising.
Especially since I find teh AI is super aggresive now untill it takes damage in which case the new super fast low tech frigate all run away faster then my high tech types.
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j01

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2012, 08:25:51 AM »

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Alex

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2012, 08:52:16 AM »

If you can share a pre-battle save that shows the problem, I can take a closer look.

In general, though, a Venture probably won't want to get near a Paragon. It's just too scared, and rightfully so.
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Nori

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2012, 08:53:36 AM »

So what you are saying is that the AI isn't as crazy or stupid as us players?  :P

On the other hand, if one of my subordinates wasn't following orders.... Well lets just say it wouldn't end well for them........
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j01

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2012, 09:04:23 AM »

If you can share a pre-battle save that shows the problem, I can take a closer look.

I don't have one handy, but I've seen this happen consistently every time I have a fleet of two lashers go up against a team of two hounds, and let the AI control all my ships. The hounds and lashers pair off and circle each other while doing nothing. I gave up after like 5 or so minutes of watching this each time, and took direct control and chased the enemies down. The ships' speed difference was likely a factor.

In general, though, a Venture probably won't want to get near a Paragon. It's just too scared, and rightfully so.

The Paragon had about 100 total hull left, and all its armor was already chewed off. I could have beaten it easily if the venture dared to go close enough just to be a distraction, but its cowardice made the battle too improbable to bother with.

A pity that I can't even override this behavior with direct orders.
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Alex

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2012, 11:51:05 AM »

Thanks for the additional info - did some more testing based on that.

The 2v2 scenario you're describing - at least what I'm seeing of it - they don't do *nothing*. It's a very cautious fight that the Hounds are slowly losing. It'd probably take a long time to fully resolve, but then, it's a fight they are hard-pressed to win. Since they have the speed edge and can control the pace of the engagement, it seems to make sense for them to avoid being overly aggressive.

The Venture situation is actually pretty interesting. I think what happened is you didn't have much beyond the two Heavy Needlers equipped, causing the AI to consider the Venture a civilian ship. If you put in some more weapons, it should engage more normally.

I did change the "is it a civilian ship" calculation to look at the OP costs of equipped weapons, to avoid this situation in the future.
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Wyvern

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2012, 11:55:48 AM »

...Oh!  I'll bet that's what happened with my just-a-single-beam-weapon vigilance loadout.  Could we get something at the outfitting screen that would tell us the calculated ship classification?  That would actually be quite useful.

(Interesting tidbit: A vigilance with a pilum LRM launcher will get counted as fire support... until it runs out of ammo, at which point it gets reclassified mid-fight.  Neat!  Not what I was expecting, and made me waste a few command points the first time I discovered it, but still neat.)
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alex

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Re: 0.51a RC3 - Overly cautious AI + wrong weapon ranges
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2012, 12:08:39 PM »

...Oh!  I'll bet that's what happened with my just-a-single-beam-weapon vigilance loadout.  Could we get something at the outfitting screen that would tell us the calculated ship classification?  That would actually be quite useful.

Ahh, yes! With the new calculation, btw, it should be correctly classified as a combat ship. But yeah - I'll see about a "civilian" indicator somewhere. I guess you can see it in the comm channel, but that's a little too late.
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