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Author Topic: Non military ships should not be deployable at all  (Read 2531 times)

RawCode

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Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« on: January 19, 2019, 11:21:19 PM »

Destruction of combat ships should automatically award all civilian ships as loot.

Suicidal behavior of everyone is fun, but this fun is immersion breaking, when lone survivor buffalo instead of surrender try to run from swarm of tempests...
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Ragni

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Re: Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2019, 11:05:30 AM »

thoughts:
- what if you survive with your fleet of 10 civilian ships against a lone Lasher ? Your civ fleet could certainly run or fight back against that.
(sort of, what if suggested feature would work against you, would you still agree to it ? How to design this ?)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 06:03:11 PM by Ragni »
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Megas

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Re: Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2019, 02:29:20 PM »

In one brutal fight against my endgame fleet vs. 300 pirate ships, all of my combat ships were either disabled or out of peak performance about the same time all of the pirate combat ships were destroyed, and the fight was decided by civilians.  I deployed my one civilian ship (few of mine could fight a little), while the pirates keep deploying then retreating a dozen or so of their civilians... several times until they died from running out of CR.  (I caught on early and only deployed one ship per round while they deployed as much as possible, and I won through CR attrition.)
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Ragni

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Re: Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2019, 03:03:16 PM »

The whole "let me deploy ships to starve enemy of CR and escape" cheese should be removed from the game somehow (imo). It makes no sense.
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Megas

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Re: Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2019, 03:31:42 PM »

The whole "let me deploy ships to starve enemy of CR and escape" cheese should be removed from the game somehow (imo). It makes no sense.
In my case, I had no choice (aside from exiting game in mid-combat).  They just would not retreat the civilians (and my warships were wiped out).  (Maybe they had too many ships and were not allowed to retreat pre-combat.)  Well, what they did was they wanted to fight, then retreat a few seconds after we deploy (or self-destruct if they were out of CR).

If the AI has civilians left and they do not want to fight, then they should retreat and not try to cheese deployments.  If they had too many ships and were not allowed to retreat, then that is a problem.  In that case, they should try to stay and fight.  If they are unarmed, then they should try to ram my ships with theirs like missiles.
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RawCode

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Re: Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2019, 10:12:05 PM »

some ships should just surrender without combat, rest should try to escape no matter size of fleet.

if's quite logical in case of lone lasher with 10CR that can't do anything about 50 buffalo.

but lone buffalo just can't escape lasher or wolf or tempest or any other  combat ship with 100++ combat speed, there are no reasons to ever throw such battle.
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TaLaR

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Re: Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2019, 10:47:30 PM »

Some civilian ships are very useful in early game combat.
Shepherds can win against smaller pirate fleets, and Dram is at least a fast enough distraction. All Kite variants except unarmed are also viable distractions.
DE civilian ships can be decent converted hangar platforms. In fact, Tarsus looks quite interesting with CH + Burn drive to run away (didn't test it in practice, AI would probably goof it up. But potential is there nonetheless).

It's only cruiser and above civilian ships that really lack any military potential.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 10:49:23 PM by TaLaR »
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Morgan Rue

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Re: Non military ships should not be deployable at all
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 10:50:33 PM »

Pretty sure civ ships easily being destroyed in pursuits is part of what being able to autoresolve pursuits is for.

The Gemini is a civ hull ship which I want to deploy fairly often. Granted, it will usually have militarized subsystems. There's also the total desperation move of deploying your logistical ships for extra combat capability, but that is very much a total desperation move.
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