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[AxleMC131]

Seems the Buffalo got slowed from Burn 9 to 8 in the 0.9 update. As far as I can tell, the Phaeton is the last civilian ship with a "military grade" burn level.

> Rapidly checks ship_data.csv

... Actually, scratch that. The Starliner is too. And the Tarsus got dropped from 9 to 8 alongside the Buffalo - what's up with the Condor's 9 burn? And that of the Buffalo Mk.II for that matter?  Is this purely to do with ship balance?

> Checks more values

And why's the Gemini still got a civilian burn speed when it ain't got Civilian-Grade Hull? I love the poor freighter to bits and always pick one up when I can, but it seems strange she's still only a burn 8 ship.


... Okay forget the original question. How about this:

Is there supposed to be some kind of standard for civilian ships (ie. those with the "Civilian-Grade Hull" hullmod) having a burn speed of 1 less than a non-civilian ship of the same hullsize? How strongly is this standard enforced, and why do the current outliers exist (if intentional)?

As a modder with a few civilian ships of my own under my belt, I'd like to do my best to keep things consistent, and if a set of rules are applied to vanilla civilian ships with such stats, I'd like to use the same rules for my own content, if that's alright.

[SCC]

Tarsus was 8 burn in 0.8.1, which created a nice little choice between it and buffalo - do I want more speed in campaign, or in combat? Now Tarsus is all around better.

[RawCode]

atm civilian ships need major rebalance to make them all conditionally useful without directly superior\inferior ships.

[DatonKallandor]

Tarsus was 8 burn in 0.8.1, which created a nice little choice between it and buffalo - do I want more speed in campaign, or in combat? Now Tarsus is all around better.

Tarsus is a sidegrade because Buffalo's come in red with shielded cargo holds. Tarsus vs Buffalo is perfectly balanced at the moment.

The Phaeton should proably lose a burn, mostly because it's weird as hell that a straight upsizing of the Dram gets bigger in every way but doesn't lose a burn.

[Euphytose]

I wouldn't call a ship a sidegrade because one of its variants has one hullmod that makes it equally good. The base variant should also have an advantage for it to be a sidegrade.

[Megas]

(P) has shielded cargo holds and ballistic slot.  (A) removes civilian-grade (I think).  Base has neither, and the base hull should be considered.  Player has base by default, but must learn pirate or hegemony pack to build the variants.  I guess player can easily buy a pirate buffalo from one of the many bases he will visit.

[Euphytose]

By the way I have a question regarding shielded cargo hold. Do the illegal goods get placed in that particular ship first? For example let's say you have 500 cargo space worth of shielded holds and you have 500 organs, but no other illegal goods, are you 100% safe?

[FreedomFighter]

By the way I have a question regarding shielded cargo hold. Do the illegal goods get placed in that particular ship first? For example let's say you have 500 cargo space worth of shielded holds and you have 500 organs, but no other illegal goods, are you 100% safe?

IIRC it is yes. It gets put into shielded hold first but not 100% safe. Just lower the chance by significant.

[Alex]

Seems the Buffalo got slowed from Burn 9 to 8 in the 0.9 update. As far as I can tell, the Phaeton is the last civilian ship with a "military grade" burn level.

> Rapidly checks ship_data.csv

... Actually, scratch that. The Starliner is too. And the Tarsus got dropped from 9 to 8 alongside the Buffalo - what's up with the Condor's 9 burn? And that of the Buffalo Mk.II for that matter?  Is this purely to do with ship balance?

> Checks more values

And why's the Gemini still got a civilian burn speed when it ain't got Civilian-Grade Hull? I love the poor freighter to bits and always pick one up when I can, but it seems strange she's still only a burn 8 ship.


... Okay forget the original question. How about this:

Is there supposed to be some kind of standard for civilian ships (ie. those with the "Civilian-Grade Hull" hullmod) having a burn speed of 1 less than a non-civilian ship of the same hullsize? How strongly is this standard enforced, and why do the current outliers exist (if intentional)?

As a modder with a few civilian ships of my own under my belt, I'd like to do my best to keep things consistent, and if a set of rules are applied to vanilla civilian ships with such stats, I'd like to use the same rules for my own content, if that's alright.

That's a couple of oversights and some stuff that's out of line without a particularly good reason. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

So: reduced Phaeton/Starliner burn by 1, and increased Gemini burn by 1. Generally speaking a civ ship has 1 burn less than military ships of the same size.

[AxleMC131]

That's a couple of oversights and some stuff that's out of line without a particularly good reason. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

So: reduced Phaeton/Starliner burn by 1, and increased Gemini burn by 1. Generally speaking a civ ship has 1 burn less than military ships of the same size.

Good to hear it's nice and simple. That makes my mod balancing a bunch easier, thank you.

Yas burn 9 Gemini

Tarsus was 8 burn in 0.8.1, which created a nice little choice between it and buffalo - do I want more speed in campaign, or in combat? Now Tarsus is all around better.

Ah, I could've sworn the Gemini was the only burn 8 freighter back then. Nevermind.

[Plantissue]

That's a couple of oversights and some stuff that's out of line without a particularly good reason. Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

So: reduced Phaeton/Starliner burn by 1, and increased Gemini burn by 1. Generally speaking a civ ship has 1 burn less than military ships of the same size.

Hi, if you are interested in a couple of possible oversights, the Brawler and Kite (A) is has burn 9 instead of 10. As the Kite(A) has Militarized Hegemony Auxiliary as a replacement for Civilian-grade Hull, as Civilian-grade Hull is required to be upgraded with Militarized Subsystems it ends up with a worse burn speed than a normal Kite.

This seems a bit odd. Perhaps Kite (A) should come "automatically" with Militarized Subsystems on the normal Kite?

I'm guessing the +1 burn to the Falcon and the two "battlecruisers" are intended.

[Alex]

Thank you - made a note about the Kite (A). The Brawler is supposed to be a bit slower.

[Megas]

Buffalo (A) also has the burn speed of the others, meaning I cannot use Military Subsystems to bump its speed like the rest.

[Alex]

Thank you, noted as well.

[Plantissue]

Thank you - made a note about the Kite (A). The Brawler is supposed to be a bit slower.

Thanks. I was wondering about whether the Brawler was intended or not. As it is, at burn speed 9 I don't see any real reason as to why a player fleet would want to ever buy the ship except as a way to fill up spare deployment points. I suppose it does have 2 medium mounts for 4 CR, but compared to other burn 9 ships that's not that impressive.