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Author Topic: Conquest Outfitting  (Read 18504 times)

gozer

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2012, 04:26:17 PM »




4x hephaestos assault gun
4x hypervelocity driver
10x tactical laser
- Integrated point defense AI
- Resistant flux conduits
- Extended shields
- Expanded magazines
- Auxiliary thrusters

hephaestos guns on manual control, the rest is set to auto-fire

I completely ditched missile weaponry, even though Conquest has decent missile mounts. Considering the very limited ammo and ease with which they can be shot down missiles just don't have the effect that would justify their cost in OP. And the fact that conquest has broadside weapons doesn't make using front-mounted missile launchers any easier ... you either have to rotate ship to face enemy (with torpedoes or rocket pods) which means you lose ability to bear broadside weapons on target (not to mention that even with auxiliary thrusters Conquest is fast and nimble like a pile of bricks), or you fire in "wrong direction" ... but then it takes the missiles some time to change course to target, longer flight time means it is harder to exploit situation like striking overloaded enemy ship, and maneuvering scatters the missiles making it easier for enemy PD to shoot them down. So instead of the hassle of wasting OP on missiles + expanded missile racks and hoping to pull off lucky missile strike from time to time, I just gave up on missile weaponry and mounted bunch of mods that actually help
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Iscariot

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2012, 05:12:28 PM »

I maintain that sabot pods will make your life much much easier. Although, I'll have to see how an all-gun Conquest works.... we'll see.
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BonhommeCarnaval

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2012, 07:38:08 PM »

I'm surprised to see so many people liking capacitors. The only time I ever put points in capacitors is if I have vents maxed out and I have all the hull mods and weapons I want already, so it's usually only a handful of points if any. Like Commissar said, capacitors only give you a tiny extra buffer before you overload/vent/stop firing. Vents help for everything but permanent flux damage and as such they are always useful unless your shield flux/s + your weapon flux/s total is lower than your dissipation (it happens but rarely). As far as I know they also make active venting faster since active venting is a percentage bonus. Capacitors make active venting take longer as far as I know.

Another thing I feel the need to point out is that the Conquest has medium ballistic slots. To me that screams PUT A DAMN FLAK CANNON IN THERE! If you did that, you probably wouldn't struggle so much with the small shield coverage or the near-uselessness of energy PDs. Once you've made that decision you can then use IR pulse lasers in your small energy slots and deal permanent flux damage at a decent range, or just keep PD in there to make yourself more impervious to missiles. Flak cannons also save you 30 points on the Int. PD AI hull mod if you previously needed it.

Lastly, missiles. I guess I can see why some people like them, but I feel like they're very unreliable in general. Against most lowtech ships and some midtech ones, they get shredded by Flak cannons and machine guns, while against hightech ships most missiles are rendered pointless due to their low damage to shields (exception being the sabots). If you're hitting a hightech ship's armor or hull with missiles, he was dead anyway. It's only my personnal preference but the only missiles I use are swarmers when I have spare OP or lackluster anti-fighter defenses, and Pilums on my long range support ships such as carriers.

EDIT : My current Conquest setup is very "unrefined" as I haven't played with it that much. I use it alongside 1 Condor, 1 Hammerhead and a bunch of Broadswords/Thunders. The setup is the following :

38 flux vents.
Accelerated Shields, Expanded Magazines, Integrated Targetting Unit, Advanced Turret Gyros.

LR PD lasers in all energy slots (including mediums), 4 Flak cannons, 2 Swarmer missile launchers and 4 Storm Needlers. Large missile slots left empty.

Works fine so far but requires more testing and refining on my part.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 07:45:28 PM by BonhommeCarnaval »
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Iscariot

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2012, 07:44:40 PM »

I agree about the vents, that did turn out to be a better deal than capacitors.

But I disagree about the medium mounts and missiles. Sabots are fast enough that they rarely get shot down, unless you fire them into incoming walls of fire, and using your medium mounts for dual flak seems pointless to me. You're just making your broadside weaker, and none of the medium mounts have ideal coverage to make anything 'impervious'.
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BonhommeCarnaval

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 07:48:20 PM »

I agree that the flak cannons' firing arcs aren't great but they still catch most incoming missiles and the rest are either picked off by PD lasers or blocked with the shield. Not having them doesn't seem to work for me as the shield is just too small and energy PD alone seems insufficient in large battles. Maybe I could at least remove 1 flak on each side though. As for sabots, I can see that they would be useful but I feel like the OP is better spent elsewhere, and I need them even less when fielding 2 Storm Needlers on each side.
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Iscariot

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2012, 07:58:55 PM »

I suppose it's a question of what you want your Conquest for. If you want it to punch out Paragons, the way I use my Conquests, then losing one medium mount on either side is definitely a problem. Storm Needlers have great DPS, but it's kinetic, so it's only half that on armor, and Paragons still have some pretty intense armor. You need maulers in there, or HV drivers/Hellbores (or Hephaestus). For a more flexible role though, I could see dropping one mount for some flaks.
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Kommodore Krieg

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2012, 09:48:56 PM »

I never felt the need for flaks on the Conquest or any pd at all for that matter.  Omni shield+accelerated shield means you can raise and lower it to block a missile or cluster bomb strike, then lower it and re raise it at another angle to block another somewhere else very quickly.  You also have decent speed and good maneuverability for a cap ship.  A flak screen on the Onslaught is almost required because it's a giant sitting duck with wide open engines that is nearly immobile with shields raised but the Conquest doesn't have the same problems.  That and I couldn't live without hypervelocity drivers to drop shields from absurd range for a dual MIRV strike.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 09:50:48 PM by Commissar Krieg »
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gozer

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2012, 03:34:16 AM »

I certainly wouldn't sacrifice medium slot(s) for flaks. the advantage the flak gives you in case of encountering massive missile salvo or bomb strike hapens only rarely, much more often you'll benefit from having another hypervelocity driver / heavy needler / whatever mounted in the medium slot that can actualy dish decent damage against big ships (who'll be conquests primary targets). and even if you meet massive missile salvo the energy PD + shields are usualy enough to counter that

btw, that is what I like about using tactical lasers + integrated point defence AI as PD on Conquest ... tactical lasers have good enough damage to get rid of missiles really fast and the 600 range means they can start doing their job from decent range (and with pinpoint accuracy compared to ballistic PD). and if you control one or two sensor arrays then with the range bonus you have really awesome PD that can counter even huge missile salvos. and you don't have to worry about running out of ammo, unlike ballistic PD. and broadside of 5 tactical lasers adds decent amount of firepower against any target
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Temstar

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 03:35:59 AM »

a dual MIRV strike.

This, this is how you use the missiles on a Conquest. MIRV doesn't requite you to turn head on to use so it's perfect for broadside, they are also very difficult to intercept for stock ships even with flak cannons because they split up just about at flak cannon's max range. Only capital ships with integrated targeting unit and single flak (longer range than dual flak) can reliable stop MIRV missiles before their split. Since none of the stock variants have integrated targeting unit, as long as you can bring down their shield a MIRV strike can hit the hull with impunity flak or no flak. Hit from a pair of MIRV is enough to seriously damage cruisers and nuke even Onslaught armour, Once the section of armour facing you is gone your can then fire your shield killing kinetic weapons into the hole and do full damage to the hull underneath.
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gozer

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 03:51:36 AM »

a dual MIRV strike.

This, this is how you use the missiles on a Conquest. MIRV doesn't requite you to turn head on to use so it's perfect for broadside, they are also very difficult to intercept for stock ships even with flak cannons because they split up just about at flak cannon's max range. Only capital ships with integrated targeting unit and single flak (longer range than dual flak) can reliable stop MIRV missiles before their split. Since none of the stock variants have integrated targeting unit, as long as you can bring down their shield a MIRV strike can hit the hull with impunity flak or no flak. Hit from a pair of MIRV is enough to seriously damage cruisers and nuke even Onslaught armour, Once the section of armour facing you is gone your can then fire your shield killing kinetic weapons into the hole and do full damage to the hull underneath.

true, but the 50 OP needed to mount two MIRV launchers (and even more if you decide to go with expanded missile racks) is hefty price to pay for those few salvos of MIRV missiles ... and thats even in the case that you manage to pull off perfect MIRV strike. heavier guns or some more hull mods seem to be better way to spend those 50+ OP
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Iscariot

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 04:09:12 AM »


btw, that is what I like about using tactical lasers + integrated point defence AI as PD on Conquest ... tactical lasers have good enough damage to get rid of missiles really fast and the 600 range means they can start doing their job from decent range (and with pinpoint accuracy compared to ballistic PD). and if you control one or two sensor arrays then with the range bonus you have really awesome PD that can counter even huge missile salvos. and you don't have to worry about running out of ammo, unlike ballistic PD. and broadside of 5 tactical lasers adds decent amount of firepower against any target

It's flux inefficient though, and flux is really the Conquest's deathknell.
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Temstar

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 04:35:04 AM »

MIRV launchers are 10 salvos each, 17 with extra missile ammo. That's a lot of missiles, I hardly run out even with 10 pairs.

The thing is I feel HE damage is all about burst. Onslaught aside, most of the time you spend fighting another ship you spend it on lowering its shield again and again and in those brief moments when the shield is down you want to do as much HE as possible to the armour. Hence I feel guns which are more about sustained damage is less suited for this role compared to missiles which are all about huge burst damage.
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Nori

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 06:34:21 AM »

MIRV launchers are 10 salvos each, 17 with extra missile ammo. That's a lot of missiles, I hardly run out even with 10 pairs.

The thing is I feel HE damage is all about burst. Onslaught aside, most of the time you spend fighting another ship you spend it on lowering its shield again and again and in those brief moments when the shield is down you want to do as much HE as possible to the armour. Hence I feel guns which are more about sustained damage is less suited for this role compared to missiles which are all about huge burst damage.

Gotta agree with you here. I love MIRVs, they are tough to shoot down and hurt a lot, plus the ammo lasts a decent amount of time and they have good tracking. I couldn't imagine not using a large missile slot when it is available...
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Half-full

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 06:51:00 AM »

k
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 05:40:04 PM by Half-full »
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Kommodore Krieg

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Re: Conquest Outfitting
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 10:52:49 AM »

Extended Magazines(Again a given for the conquest.)

I only feel it's necessary if you use Hephaestus AGs, because they go through ammo so fast.  That's one of the reasons I prefer Hellbores to the HAG.  It's not only more bursty, which like the above poster said is key for HE weapons, but it does way more damage per shot.  It takes about 6 HAG shots to do the damage of one Hellbore shot.  Not only does it take longer to land all those shots (and you only have a short window when shields are down) but you have to account for missed shots; it's easier to line up one shot than it is 6. 

Then there is the issue of ammo count.  The Hellbore does 750 damage with 50 shots, which is 37500 total potential damage.  The HAG does 120 per shot with 150 shots which is only 18000 total potential damage.  Keeping in mind that it's usually much easier to deliver more of the Hellbore's total potential damage because you will be firing fewer shots, which will mean fewer missed shots.  In order for the HAG to compete in this way it needs extended mags, which makes it even more OP inefficient when you consider it's already 4 more OP than a Hellbore.  Ammo count may not be as much an issue in smaller fights, but it's a HUGE issue fighting those bigger fleets with mutliple Onslaughts / Paragon level ships.
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