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Author Topic: where do all these people come from?  (Read 7766 times)

Joshee

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where do all these people come from?
« on: December 08, 2018, 09:44:42 AM »

so i started a colony and after playing for a few years my population was in the billions. I have noticed other planets population does not drop so migration doesn't seem to be a factor so i was thinking either people already live on the planet and join your colony or there is a cloning machine making full grown intelligent humans. so i was thinking.

-if people already live in the planet why not make them a commodity like any other. for example a planet with +2 population, +1 rare ore and so on.

-then you build a recruitment center or whatever you want to call it and make that create crewman.

-also maybe make other facilities on the planet require crew just like ships. so if i have an orbital works it needs say minimum 500 crew to operate but if i add 1000 crew i get a bonus because of larger population

-when you establish a colony it would require 1000 or whatever crew but you would not lose them. you would just allocate them

anyway great game. just some thoughts


 





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Megas

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2018, 09:54:55 AM »

Some planets have decivilized, which gives -2 stability to a colony built there but grows population faster.

Then there are systems with the sleeper ships, and if you have a colony in the same system as a sleeper, you can build a special industry to boost colony population growth.  (Unfortunately for me, all of the sleeper ships I found so far have been in systems with awful hazard ratings for its planets.)
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Recklessimpulse

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2018, 06:49:32 PM »

It would be nice for it to make more sense but at least until your planet equals the current biggest population immigration makes sense for the monthly population growth but after that? Not so much.
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goduranus

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2018, 07:02:08 PM »

Cloning? They roll out of factories just like that.

Baxter

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2018, 07:19:00 PM »

Personally I think a few of the more habitable systems in the sector need to have their population bumped up. Jangala could easily sit at size 9 for example. That said, reaching size 9 on one of my colonies and getting a message about it being one of the few refuges for what's left of humanity in the sector was a nice feeling. Perhaps the solution is to aggressively cap colony growth across the sector once the "refugee" population of the sector is used up, assuming that this population is made up of itinerants etc.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2018, 03:19:51 AM »

Where do the people come from? This is a family friendly game, so let us not speak of it.

What on earth is the rationale for de-civilized making population grow faster? That's not how it works.

Growth needs to be nerfed, better if player colonies have a logarithmic growth that falls off with time so that it would take more or less impossible to go above 10^6. Player colonies should mostly be vassal states of main factions unless they're very far away and economically inoffensive.

If you let players get bigger than all the established factions within like 5 years, not only does it not make sense, but it sort of obligates the game to shift into 4x gameplay which so far it doesn't do well, and probably should not.
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SCC

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2018, 03:37:17 AM »

This is a family friendly game, so let us not speak of it.

What on earth is the rationale for de-civilized making population grow faster? That's not how it works.

Growth needs to be nerfed, better if player colonies have a logarithmic growth that falls off with time so that it would take more or less impossible to go above 10^6. Player colonies should mostly be vassal states of main factions unless they're very far away and economically inoffensive.
Is it really?
Decivilised, I guess, means not exactly savages, but simply societies that can't go into space, for one reason or another. Especially when that condition shows up on uninhabitable worlds. It doesn't make sense for it to persist after you achieve millions or more people.
About growth: try playing without incentives at all. It's saner that way.

Rounin

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2018, 04:39:43 AM »

What on earth is the rationale for de-civilized making population grow faster? That's not how it works.

It works by all those bloody savages (or just small communities trying to get by) joining your colony, coming out of the woods, down from the hills, etc.
Another reason to make it go away after a while.
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Goumindong

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2018, 04:03:02 PM »

There is an “active” cryosleeper someowhere in the bass sector iirc (not sure where) and so many of the people will have been worked up and then emigrated.
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Megas

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2018, 04:10:51 PM »

I found two sleepers in my first game, and they seem to be randomly generated.  They only apply to the system the sleeper is found in, and you need to build a special industry to harvest population from the sleeper.  Unfortunately for me, both systems had awful planets for colonization (due to +200% or more hazard), so I never did anything aside from a quick test to see the special industry.  Apparently, sleepers do not want to leave the system you find their ship in.
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TrashMan

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 02:58:52 AM »

Where do the people come from? This is a family friendly game, so let us not speak of it.

What on earth is the rationale for de-civilized making population grow faster? That's not how it works.

Growth needs to be nerfed, better if player colonies have a logarithmic growth that falls off with time so that it would take more or less impossible to go above 10^6. Player colonies should mostly be vassal states of main factions unless they're very far away and economically inoffensive.

If you let players get bigger than all the established factions within like 5 years, not only does it not make sense, but it sort of obligates the game to shift into 4x gameplay which so far it doesn't do well, and probably should not.

Agreed.
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Deshara

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 07:25:13 AM »

just because the population of the sector at game start sits at ___ (I'm not looking it up) doesn't mean that's all the population that those planets are capable of having -- the planets could have just hit the break-even point that results from their social programs, and not material limitations -- and a newly colonized planet with room for people to stretch their legs that's a mere flight away from every planet in the sector might change that.
If a player plops down a hundred million houses for rent, I'm sure there's a hundred million young couples stuck living with their parents elsewhere who aren't starting families bc their circumstances don't give them room for it (taking care of the grandparents full-time being a condition of living in their home & leaving no time for making a family, for example), who could sell labor aboard a star-cruiser in exchange for passage to this new colony where they are free from the social pressures that were preventing them from starting a family before.

and, re: the "the population growth must be migration because people don't grow to adulthood that fast" thought: nobody said a planet's population is their adult population
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Xan

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 02:32:07 AM »

I'm sure its not impossible to write it so increased growth at one place means less growth distributed over nearby inhabited planets (I'm sure you could even add lines about the appeal of a planet, since im sure living on jengala is a lot more comfy than living on a barren rock)

But... why? This game isnt trying to be an ultra in-depth space civilizations game, so simualting this stuff seems a little overkill. Adding stuff like this has pretty little actual use for how many issues it can potentially cause.
Example, players investing a lot of money into growth incentives, which causes other planets to lose population, destabilizing the economy, or worse. A minor detail like this seems hardly worth it, imho.
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nomadic_leader

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 05:58:18 AM »

just because the population of the sector at game start sits at ___ (I'm not looking it up) doesn't mean that's all the population that those planets are capable of having -- the planets could have just hit the break-even point that results from their social programs, and not material limitations -- and a newly colonized planet with room for people to stretch their legs that's a mere flight away from every planet in the sector might change that.

What is the point of concocting these convoluted rationalizations for things that don't make sense and aren't good? It may be a fun solipsistic mental exercise but I'm not sure it contributes to a discussion of gameplay that need to be changed.

Sure, the sector could be on the cusp of some tipping point, and you're playing as the first wave of a  renaissance of tonnes of new planets and colonies inhabited by basement-dwelling newlyweds but if so:

1: The narrative needs to firmly establish that's the situation.
2: Other factions and NPCs need to colonize planets, not just the player.
3: If player is going to be as big as other faction, the game has to be a fully 4x game, or it will have no internal consistency at all. It isn't 4x, and it shouldn't be.

Xan is right, the game shouldn't print new people like Zimbabwean dollars. They need to come from somewhere. If 1 planet gains an order of magnitude, another should drop an order of magnitude with stability penalties to each for a while.

The pop growth has to falloff after 10s of millions, or game has to be a 4x game in order to not suck.
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nathanebht

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Re: where do all these people come from?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 09:43:10 AM »

Alex's tweets indicate that the next version will slow down industry build time and limit the number of industries per planet. Haven't seen anything on changing population growth rate.

Found a sleeper ship but didn't know what it was for. And then I forgot exactly what system it had been in.  ???

Immigration from other colonies should be very slow. How many fleets would it take to move 10k people from one system to another. 100k? I can only suspend disbelief so far and the game doesn't show a continuous stream of passenger liners arriving at my colonies.

The game should require you to gather people for you colonies. Find a massive sleeper ship and tow it back. Pay the costs for transporting the downtrodden and training them.
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