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Author Topic: Rare items and their distribution  (Read 9358 times)

dandylions

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Rare items and their distribution
« on: December 03, 2018, 05:53:14 PM »

First, what counts as "rare"? Nanoforges, synchrotron cores, blueprints, anything else?

I'm assuming we don't know what the underlying distribution is between those items, but I'd like to suggest that nanoforges (both types) and synchrotron cores are perhaps too common, and blueprints too rare.

- I consistently find nanoforges and cores in my playthroughs. I don't think I've had one (out of four, maybe five runs) where I did not have a pristine nanoforge and a core by level 45-50. And usually a couple of each, plus a half dozen or more corrupted nanoforges. The game lore implies that these should be exceedingly rare seeing as how there's otherwise only a single synchrotron core in existence and the biggest factions seem to have a nanoforge each.
- In a similar vein, the dice rolling for blueprints implies they're a bit too rare. An exploit: the loot from a raid is not calculated in advance, so if you can position yourself to be ready to raid and save the game there, you can continuously reload until you get what you want (or at least something useful). Which also means that you can derive a sense of how often things show up, and across "dozens" of raids against Culann and Chizomoztoc, I ended up with their nanoforge more often than any other rare item.
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StarGibbon

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 07:16:34 PM »

Rng varies wildly by playthrough, and it's very difficult to get a real idea of frequency patterns. I really never get around to looting every single sector in a given  playthrough, so it's just a matter of what I get around to exploring before I run out of steam on that game.  For instance, on the past two games I have yet to find a pristine forge, and finally got a synchotron in the second. Blueprints, likewise, rare in the first, plentiful in second.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that its very difficult to tell. People tend to be overly aggressive in defining patterns in random systems.
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Grievous69

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 11:49:07 PM »

Just here to confirm this, found about 30 corrupted nanoforges in my playthrough, not a single pristine one tho. Just yesterday found my first Synchrotron core at lvl 42 so they seem to be actually rare. Blueprints are also impossible to find unless you're still missing some of the packs since I found them at every sinle ruin and research station so far.
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StarGibbon

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 12:08:45 AM »

Blueprints *should* be rare, and probably much rarer still, since even a set of low tech BP coupled with the unlimited money from a colony with heavy industry basically signals the end of the game. Past that point there's no longer any meaningful limits or challenge to the player.

Personally Im swimming in Blueprints this game, and can build high tech, low tech, and midline cap ships at will.  I did invest in the salvaging tree early in the game though, so there *should* be some payoff to that.
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Megas

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 06:40:24 AM »

I want to see Pirate and (both) Ludd packs disappear or made much rarer.  They clog rare item spawns too much (not to mention they may pollute your patrols), and the only good ship from the pirate pack after the early game is the Colossus 3 (and only for Ground Support package for blueprint raiding later).  (Falcon (P) not included, and is found on a separate blueprint.)  Pirate and Ludd packs should be found in the Black Markets of their bases or as loot from smashing one of their bases.

Corrupted nanoforges seem a bit too common as well, but you can use several in multiple Heavy Industries for higher production per month.  Synchrotrons, I do not know for sure.  So far, they seem nearly as common as corrupt nanoforges, but I do not really need more than one.  Pristine nanoforge seems genuinely rare, and could be a bit more common, or at least replace some of those corrupted nanoforges.

Basic tech and missile packs seem okay.  Could be slightly more common, at least take the place of junky Pirate and Ludd packs.

Other blueprints for individual ships and weapons are too rare.  I get a significant number from the technology cache mission, and find a few more.  Max Salvaging may not help (your +50% rare items could very well be more Pirate-and-Ludd packs or extra synchrotrons/corrupt nanoforges).  I need to resort to stealth raiding core worlds with Heavy Industry to get the rest, and by the time I can do that, I have basically won the game.  Those blueprints need to be much more common so that player can have something nice to build before winning the game.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 06:42:32 AM by Megas »
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StarGibbon

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 06:57:20 AM »

Personally, Im not of the opinion a player should be guaranteed to find everything in every playthrough. Making do with what the game gives you is part of the challenge and it promotes replayability. Low tech blueprint packages are extremely common even early on, and more than potent enough to remove most of the challenge from the game.

50% Salvaging bonus, taken early, does make a large difference in my experience from one play through to the next. This game I found a high tech BP suite very early.   Even if you get dupes, they sell for good money.  With the exception of a Pristine forge, which do seem rare, loot drops had become fairly boring for me before I even had Heavy Industry set up, because I had found most everything I could have wanted.  With the exception of heavy maulers, which for some reason are strangely rare in this play, which just illustrates the fickle RNG.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 07:01:07 AM by StarGibbon »
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Megas

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 10:57:22 AM »

I do not want to resort to blueprint raids to get most of the good stuff because the game is practically over by then.  It would be nice to get more quality blueprints during the midgame than yet another pirate or Ludd pack.

If I relied on empirical results on Salvaging (instead of what Alex says), I would deem it a harmful skill that degrades quality of rare drops (despite getting more rare stuff and vendor trash) and removes three skills points better spent on combat stuff.  I had fewer but better (or more useful) rare drops without Salvaging in my first game when I compared results of no Salvaging and max Salvaging.  Most of the extra stuff I got were duplicate junk.

It is sort of like raiding.  % greater than 40 is not good because you get more vendor trash your fleet probably cannot carry and it drops the market's stability more, and I do not want to kill stability when I want to raid for blueprints frequently.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 11:00:38 AM by Megas »
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StarGibbon

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 11:14:33 AM »

I do not want to resort to blueprint raids to get most of the good stuff because the game is practically over by then.  It would be nice to get more quality blueprints during the midgame than yet another pirate or Ludd pack.

If I relied on empirical results on Salvaging (instead of what Alex says), I would deem it a harmful skill that degrades quality of rare drops (despite getting more rare stuff and vendor trash) and removes three skills points better spent on combat stuff.  I had fewer but better (or more useful) rare drops without Salvaging in my first game when I compared results of no Salvaging and max Salvaging.  Most of the extra stuff I got were duplicate junk.

It is sort of like raiding.  % greater than 40 is not good because you get more vendor trash your fleet probably cannot carry and it drops the market's stability more, and I do not want to kill stability when I want to raid for blueprints frequently.

I cant argue with anecdotes. As for my own anecdotes, I haven't done a single raid, but generally walk out of a domain sector with an armful of blueprints. Sure, after a certain point most of them are dupes, but like I said, the dupes sell for good money in the early game.

I dont sell "vendor trash". I warehouse the commodities to fufill procurement missions for better profit and relations when they pop.

It seems to me you want better loot, but arent willing to invest in the skill that gives you, over time, better loot, because you say it isn't worth it. I'm not sure you can have it both ways. You have to make choices, and you've chosen to have a somewhat more difficult time finding loot in exchange for something else.  Salvaging is one of those skills that is better taken as soon as possible, or not at all. Otherwise its value diminishes with every missed loot check opportunity.



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StarGibbon

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Re: Rare items and their distribution
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2018, 11:19:58 PM »

Another perk to Salvaging--coupled with Recovery OP 3, it has a powerful indirect effect on the effective range of your fleet, as well as how many support ships you need to carry around.  I routinely set off to a target without enough supply/fuel for a round trip. I rake in so many fuel and supplies even from mundane salvage opportunities, I rarely give more than a passing concern to how many I have. More are always just a salvage away. A single Phaeton, or a couple drams if you still need the burn speed, comfortably supports a large fleet with multiple capitals. Supplies are basically free, and I end up having to space many of them.


I'm pretty much over combat (Combat tree) skills in exchange for quality of life skills. Arguably the best combat skills come from the other 3 trees anyway. This also means I can do things like barrel through storms without breaking a sweat or spending precious OP on solar shielding.  In my opinion no combat skill is worth threading the needle through all those f-ing storms.
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