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Author Topic: On planets and industries  (Read 19795 times)

Chaos Blade

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2018, 05:26:51 PM »

If going with limted slots, all colonies should have some specialist slots for Starport, waystation and maybe patrolHQ.
Personally I think a pop requirement for some industries could be doable, that way it assumes that there is a whole required support infrastructure behind every fuel production facility, or heavy industry (or to make upgrades from a patrolHQ to a military base or batteries to heavies and so on and so forth)

There should be more demand for luxury goods, and probably more heavy industry in the sector. and, maybe freeport stability malus should increase with the colony (the idea would be to make large freeports complicated to handle)

I was thinking maybe have more impact of pop size on production (and demands) and, maybe, an education value, while adding another variable could be not fun, the idea is that the faster you grow, UNLESS using cryosleep, you would get a hit on education (with freeport capping the growth and decreasing towards the cap if over), that way it would add some trade off to the growth grants, other than money (alternatively too fast a growth rate should decrease stability?) that could affect the colony's production or accessibility (as in, the colony produces a lot of cheap products, but they are crap quality thus, you get a malus to your export of said products)
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SCC

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2018, 08:30:37 AM »

Manpower: make all resource-producing industries compete for it. The more industries there are on the planet, the less productive each of them is. Perhaps some of industries need only a set % to acquire full productivity, but others would be uncapped and good even when they're the only industry on the planet, like farming.

Megas

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2018, 08:46:10 AM »

Manpower is sort of in already.  I have size 3 waystation colonies that can produce more food than they can export.

EDIT:  That may be dictated by accessibility, which I do not want when I want to freeze growth on a waystation colony.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 08:56:46 AM by Megas »
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TaLaR

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2018, 08:48:55 AM »

Every resource is managed on order of magnitude scale. Why would you break this logic for population in particular?
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2018, 11:33:56 AM »

My issue with all the slot limits is we already have "soft" limits with the hazard and accessibility ratings. Plus we all know Alex is going to tweak the income of colonies in .91. The last thing I, and most others I bet, would like to happen is that colonies become near impossible to make profitable, which I think would happen if we did the slot limit stuff.
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SCC

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 12:01:07 PM »

My issue with all the slot limits is we already have "soft" limits with the hazard and accessibility ratings.
It's very binary at the moment. On high hazard worlds, you build only the bare minimum. On low hazard worlds, you build everything (or in a way to maximise the profits) because there's no reason not to.

Midnight Kitsune

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2018, 12:07:11 PM »

My issue with all the slot limits is we already have "soft" limits with the hazard and accessibility ratings.
It's very binary at the moment. On high hazard worlds, you build only the bare minimum. On low hazard worlds, you build everything (or in a way to maximise the profits) because there's no reason not to.
Yeah and it seems that the slot limit suggestion is to go after the stupid amounts of money you make on the latter without taking into account the former or just early colonies in general
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SCC

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2018, 12:10:55 PM »

Yeah and it seems that the slot limit suggestion is to go after the stupid amounts of money you make on the latter without taking into account the former or just early colonies in general
Limit based on planet size and population size is specifically because the best way is to amass credits before making a colony, then dump them to set everything required at once, no matter what kind of colony you're building. There might as well be one button, "build everything and make money".

Midnight Kitsune

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2018, 12:16:02 PM »

Which to me makes sense; you don't build a house with the min. down payment in your pocket. You build up your saving or get a loan.
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XazoTak

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2018, 02:14:11 PM »

Population-limited capabilities would have interesting implications on gameplay.
Maybe I'd want to make a colony where I farm people.
Civilian transport would definitely need to be a thing if people actually matter, and so I could have a high-population planet that exports people, only to my colonies should I be at war with everyone.
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RedHellion

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2018, 01:46:39 PM »

My issue with all the slot limits is we already have "soft" limits with the hazard and accessibility ratings.
It's very binary at the moment. On high hazard worlds, you build only the bare minimum. On low hazard worlds, you build everything (or in a way to maximise the profits) because there's no reason not to.

My issue is that even with high-hazard worlds, there's no interesting decisions: I still build everything and make a net profit with those high-hazard colonies, and I haven't found enough low-hazard colonies (below 150%) that have any decent planetary properties to make it worth a colony there. I don't make stupid amounts of money with just my two high-hazard colonies, but I still make a decent net profit without having to make any tough or interesting decisions regarding them to ensure that they are able to make said profit.
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SCC

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 04:25:02 AM »

I think that an alternative to removing the industry limit would be limiting industries' capabilities. Instead of having Heavy Industry making 4 kinds of commodities, why not have 4 types of industries, each one manufacturing just one commodity?
It would go a long way to increase the immersion too. Compare:
Chicomoztoc (8):
  • Population & Infrastructure
  • Megaport
  • Farming
  • Mining
  • Refining
  • Light Industry
  • Orbital Works
  • 3 defences
VERSUS
Chicomoztoc (8):
  • Population & Infrastructure
  • Megaport
  • Strip Mining
  • Deep Mining
  • Metalworks
  • Enrichment Centres
  • Light Industry
  • (I am not sure how to split Light Industry, sorry)
  • Manufacturing Plants
  • Repair Facilities (I'm not sure about this one either)
  • Arms Industry
  • Shipyards/Orbital Works
Maybe the latter one went a little over board, there's no space for defences left. But there's no farming left either. Everything is either extracting raw resources, processing them or manufacturing finished products, the whole world is busy with that. There's barely any space left for humans between all the forges, mines, assembly lines...
And there's the fact that you could split Tech-Mining into Tech-Mining: Raw Materials and Tech-Mining: Collector Items.

ith

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Re: On planets and industries
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2018, 05:18:25 AM »

How about this:

Size-based limitations:
Size 3: 4 slots available, level 1 buildings only, primary industries only (farming/aquaculture, mining, tech-mining). No market-based expeditions, no pathers, medium pirate raids only with limited consequences (-1 stability, a hit to accessibility for a couple months and losing this month's income, let's say)
Size 4: 8 slots available, level 1 buildings only (except maybe battlestation level 2), all industries available. Small expeditions possible (maybe only mercenaries with no standings hit, like someone suggested), Pather cells but no attacks, medium+ pirate raids
Size 5: 10 slots available, all buildings/upgrades available. No limits on attacks.
Size 6: 12 slots available

Synchrotrons/nanoforges can only be installed in level 2 buildings (new level 2 refinery upgrade needs to be added, buildable at size 5).

AI/tech-mining expeditions as now.

Possibly also restriction of only one building being upgraded or built at a time.


Growth:
Should be tied to planet characteristics more than now (habitability, distance to core, maybe other traits) and possibly require more effort (organizing immigrant convoys/recruitment in the core?, maybe buildings that you can remove once you feel the colony is big enough)

Increasing the size of colonies should be progressively slower and require more investment. 3->4 should happen somewhat slower than now, maybe require some investment if planet is hazardous. Going 4->5 should require significant work/money but eventually be doable for any planet if you wish, 5->6 lots of investment and desirable planet (good accessibility due to proximity to core and/or low hazard rating) and some time, 6->7 heroic efforts, only possible for good planets.
Since growth will mainly be based on immigration, there is a good rationale for fast growth early on and slower growth later, since interstellar transport capacity will be the limiting factor, and requirements will increase by an order of magnitude for each population level.

This would
 - Force decisions at the start of a colony (do you want defences, growth, or income?)
 - Limit the downsides from overinvesting in a colony early on and limit income from colonies at the start. A built-up colony that gets raided before the player is ready can be a significant money drain right now.
 - Encourage starting colonies earlier (since growth takes time and there is less danger) rather than saving up lots of money, colonizing and dumping a ton of cash into building up everything at once
 - Make growing a large colony (size 5+) an attractive goal rather than something that eventually just happens to a colony that already does what you want
 - Encourage multiple specialized smaller colonies in addition to larger built-up ones
 - Keep the existing underlying system largely intact

Downsides (the ones I can think of):
 - Increased reliance on finding good planets (in particular habitable planets close to the core) and systems
 - Possibly easier to spam smaller colonies

What other problems would this system cause?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 06:36:21 AM by ith »
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